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Honda OEM and Aftermarket B-Series VTEC Cam Shaft Chart: Cams Measured at 1mm of lift: Integra Type-R(Through 1999 Spec) Int-240 dur. / 11.5mm lift Exh-235 dur. / 10.5mm lift Civic Type-R And Integra Type-R(Integra Type R 2000/01 Spec) Int-243 dur. / 11.5mm lift Exh-235 dur. / 10.5mm lift Skunk2 Stage 1 Int-252 dur. / 11.5mm lift Exh-249 dur. / 10.8mm lift JUN Type 1 Int-265 dur. / 10.9mm lift Exh-268 dur. / 10.0mm lift Spoon Sports Int-256 dur. / 11.5mm lift Exh-245 dur. / 11.1mm lift JUN Type 2 Int-267 dur. / 12.0mm lift Exh-265 dur. / 10.9mm lift Skunk2 Stage 2 Int-266 dur. / 12.3mm lift Exh-262 dur. / 11.8mm lift JUN Type 3 Int-265 dur. / 12.0mm lift Exh-265 dur. / 11.5mm lift Skunk2 Stage 3 Int-270 dur. / 12.8mm lift Exh-279 dur. / 11.8mm lift ________________________________________________________________________ Cams Measured with 0mm of lift: Civic Si(1999 Spec) Int-265 dur. / 10.5mm lift Exh-267 dur. / 9.6mm lift Integra GS-R Int-274 dur. / 10.7mm lift Exh-276 dur. / 9.6mm lift Crower 400 Int-279 dur. / 10.7mm lift Exh-280 dur. / 9.6mm lift Civic Type-R And Integra Type-R(Integra Type R 2000/01 Spec) Int-278 dur. / 11.5mm lift Exh-280 dur. / 10.5mm lift Crower 401(NA Version) Int-282 dur. / 11.3mm lift Exh-277 dur. / 10.5mm lift Crower 401-T(Forced Induction Version) Int-280 dur. / 11.8mm lift Exh-276 dur. / 11.3mm lift Toda Spec A Int-290 dur. / 11.6mm lift Exh-280 dur. / 11.2mm lift Crower 402(Both Regular 402 and 402-A, 402-A is milder off VTEC) Int-297 dur. / 11.8mm lift Exh-287 dur. / 11.8mm lift Toda Spec B Int-295 dur. / 12.0mm lift Exh-285 dur. / 12.0mm lift Crower 403 Int-295 dur. / 12.0mm lift Exh-293 dur. / 11.8mm lift Toda Spec C Int-295 dur. / 12.5mm lift Exh-295 dur. / 12.5mm lift ________________________________________________________________________ Sam’s Rank from "Mildest to Wildest"(not Including Crower 401 Turbo and Crower 402-A): Civic Si Integra GS-R Crower 400 Integra/Civic Type-R Crower 401 Skunk2 Stage 1 JUN Type 1 Toda Spec A Spoon Sports JUN Type 2 Crower 402 Skunk2 Stage 2 Toda Spec B JUN Type 3 Crower 403 Skunk2 Stage 3 Toda Spec C Sources and Thanks: [url=www.crower.com]www.crower.com[/url] for OEM and Crower Cams [url=www.todaracing.com]www.todaracing.com[/url] for Toda Cams Shawn at [url=www.Sound-Buys.com]www.Sound-Buys.com[/url] for Spoon Sports and Skunk2 Cams Dave at [url=www.Darksol.com]www.Darksol.com[/url] for JUN and OEM cams -To anyone posting this on a website or message forum; Please let the author be of this chart(Sam Karp, karpsam@hotmail.com) be know for any corrections or errors. The above rank list is determined via differences between all of the aftermarket cams compared to Civic Type R cams. Ties in the rank list are broken by taking the cam that has proven more peak power as the "better" cam. -If anyone wants this e-mailed please post up or PM me. If anyone has a problem with the rankings/specs......go poop yourselves...I spent a lot of time on this...haha J/K...let me know your thoughts. |
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Thanks Sam!!! [printing] |
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Makes ya wonder.... If ya used a skunk2 stage 2 intake and and a JUN 3 exaust cam would it make more power. But also.....would it hit..? |
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i want sam's job, where i can get all this info instead of working now someone make this post sticky and keep it at the top, so when people has which cam is better, we point them here! |
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Thanks Sam, Im sure this is going to help out a lot! |
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very nice job! props sam! |
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Sam, Thanks, I just started shopping for cams and was not sure which to go with for the cash. Crowers sound like they might be the best bang for the buck. |
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thanks, nice info. maybe we should make this post sticky for all the newbis |
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thanks, i'll archive it in my 'car stuff' folder. |
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crower sucks when it comes to cams...mine cracked in my old set up:( oh SAM thanks meng, you the man! |
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Thanks Sam! You the man!!! |
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No problem guys. The biggest thing I learned is what different cam company likes best....lift or duration. JUN is by far a duration company. They have much more duration than others on the list but hella less lift. Good for people running high dome pistons but adding lift really helps more IMO. As for mixing/matching cams. I wouldnt do it. Maybe a JUN II Intake/JUN III Exhaust but still yet they are made to work together as a set. If there was duration/lift/power to gain by mixing and matching then they would do it themselves. Another thing I learned.....I was really underestimating the JUN II cam. That is a hell of a cam that almost no one uses(Joey does I think). It is closer to JUN III than I thought it would be. Probaly just a little less power over 8200rpms but mainly thats it! |
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Good deal!! Gracias. |
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Didn't Mike K run a JunII/ITR Exhaust cam combo and make good power? |
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In reply to: Yes he did. You may be able to find the post on Honda Tech. I think I've got the link saved somewhere, I'll see if I can find it. http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=90743 EDIT: added link to cam test results Tony |
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that is awsome, thank you |
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i didnt notice the monsterous auto 1st gen b16 bumpsitck on that list:D |
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So the Crowers are no good. Well then I guess its JUN3 cams for me. But I have heard of people having problems with the JUN 3s binding the valve springs even the JUN springs. Anyone have any feedback on this. Fact or Fiction? I have a B16A1 and i want to get the most out of it without taking the motor down completely. I have been told the JUN3 will give the most HP. |
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fiction........I have never heard of this in a JUN setup..... The cams beaking however is not unheard of...But onyl when abused and taken where they shouldnt be. They become very unreliabele at around 9700 or so. But then againnnnwho cares about 9700? |
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thanks Sam!!!!! |
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does any1 here have the skunk2 stage1 cams??? i like to go with that....... any problems with it?? hows the power gains? |
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nice compilation Sammy ! , if you hear of Jun cams or most other cams causing binding of the springs, it is almost always an installation error, where improper installed height was used or not checked. Sometimes the wrong springs are used with the wrong cams, but usually it is a problem with the installed height. |
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im just curious, have anyone dyno skunk stage 1 vs ctr/itr cams? Do both of them make good mid range power? To me from looking at the specs, it seem like skunk stage 1 will make more power since it has more lift and dur. ? What you guy's think ? dyno polts will be excellent thank you! |
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Jun rules. That is all. Miguel |
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Thanks Sam...No venom cams? |
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Anyone know if the Skunk2 Stage 3 cams will have the same problems I've heard the Skunk2 Stage 2 cams have had? I'm talking about the lobes on the shafts wearing out after a while...btw make this post sticky! |
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Damn!! I love this page... thanks Sam!! |
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This page is a sticky at the time. I have not heard of any problems with the "new batches" of Skunk2 cams. Skunk2 admits that there were wear problems a few years back with their cam but I have not heard of anyone having a wear or breakage problem ever since the "new batch" came out. Atleast I have'nt heard about it here. |
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My two cents: 1. Kick ass research. Way to go!! 2. I'm sure that most of you will know this, but for those who don't. Since the max flow through the intake ports is determined by the port geometry, adding lift will only help till the port flow is maxed out. After that any extra lift won't help(unless turboed). Whereas adding duration will always increase the amount of intake charge flowing into the cylinder, regardless if the port flow is at its max. Just something to consider for those without head work. |
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the people that break cams are the ones who dont have a clue were the valves need to be lashed at or what spring to run not knowing that info will result in binding for sure.to much spring pressure. |
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which cams would be good to use in my ls/vtec engine. I have the stock 1st gen b16a cams and the vtec engagement is very mild, in sound that is anyways. I was thinking of just changing the intake cam but I want to find one that will "POP" the loudest when VTEC engages.what makes the "POP" louder lift or duration? please help me. thanks, Daniel |
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OMG. You dont want pop...or a noticeable transition. You want a nice smooth transition when you hardly know that VTEC. Unless you want to just have your car sound good and not have it make power. Look at the post below this one for LSVTEC advice. |
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skunk2.com has a dyno chart of the stage1's vs ITR's not sure how accurate the information is though. |
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I hardly visit this forum...but now ill keep coming back if I can get more info like this...I wish the rest of Csi was this well informed. thanks sam |
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OK, this post is back to nromal but still available for search. If anyone needs this e-mailed I still have it. |
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i was looking all over for this.how come it aint sticky no more |
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It is not sticky anymore becase it was not getting a lot of hits and most of the regulars have it in their personal files. Make this post a favorite and it all you have to do is go to your "Home" and there is the post. Plus 4 stickies is too much in one forum. |
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sam i went and talked to RTR and was asked about the differences in the toda B's vs. the skunk stage 2....what are the most noticable differences??? because they said that i may be able tyo get a good guy price on some skunk stage 2 ones if i wanted....what do you think?? lemme know please....also if you could also include the duration/lift....all the specs in your reply so i can print them out and show them to RTR becasue they were wondering about the difference. eric |
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Eric, I answered your questions via phone but will post anyway. Civic Type-R And Integra Type-R(Integra Type R 2000/01 Spec) measured at 1mm of lift Int-243 dur. / 11.5mm lift Exh-235 dur. / 10.5mm lift Skunk2 Stage 2 measured at 1mm of lift Int-266 dur. / 12.3mm lift Exh-262 dur. / 11.8mm lift Civic Type-R And Integra Type-R(Integra Type R 2000/01 Spec) measured at 0mm of lift Int-278 dur. / 11.5mm lift Exh-280 dur. / 10.5mm lift Toda Spec B measured at 0mm of lift. Int-295 dur. / 12.0mm lift Exh-285 dur. / 12.0mm lift One thing that is not compared is the Primary and Secondary lobes. TODA has traditionally used much larger Primary and Secondary lobes with their Spec B and Spec C over any other cam producer. These lobes provide larger off-VTEC gains. Skunk2, JUN, certain Crower cams have OEM or similar to OEM primary and seconday lobes and dont offer the midrange power of the TODA B and C. Now for the real-world power gains.........Well TODA will give lots of midrange power and not so great top-end power. Although the specs are different, TODA B's give just a little more top-end than a TODA A. In a standard B16A2 they will gain around 25whp over the current set-up if the header is good and tuning is good. Add things like an ITR Intake Manifold, bigger TB, test-pipe, large exhaust, etc and the gains will be a little higher. Skunk2 Stage 2's will offer much less midrange than the TODA B's but they are much more aggressive on the top-end. They offer tons of duration on both cams and good lift as well(sounds like JUN ). These cams will usually net around a 30-35whp peak gain with the almost-needed ITR Intake Manifold, large TB, etc. I like both. They are my favorite two cams to be honest. However, I am a sucker for midrange power. I am an autocrosser who drives his car daily and was always wanting more midrange out of my B16A2. That is why I am more of a TODA fan. Plus in the days of JUN and TODA you had to choose one side or the other!! Jerry will probaly favor a set of Skunk2's over TODA's. The Skunk2 Stage 3's are a very nice road race cam. They use a very low VTEC cross-over(compared to a TODA B or C!!) and have the most top-end power. Talented drivers that can keep the motor over 6500rpms at all times will like the Skunk 2 Stage 3's. I am an autocrosser and would like to ride 2nd gear all the way if I could, therefore I like a little midrange. TODA C's are nutty on valvetrain and fuel so the B's are my favorite cam. I have told a ton of open-track day guys that Stage 2's(street) or Stage 3's(trailor) are the way to go. I also tell the autocrossers that Toda B's(street) or C's(trailor) is the way to go. Now with the TODA/Ericks Spec D's out....who knows. Thats a lot of stress on the valvetrain though! The D's(if I remember) are like a B/C off-VTEC and a Stage 3 on!!! Thats nutty. The choice is yours(although you already made it) but from what you have told me, you want the midrage and TODA B is the way to go. |
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thanks a ton sam....jerry actually said he liked the todas alot...he said ill like em alot too...so thats what ill stick with...i got my crank today too...hello 1.8L |
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Now Sam I am planning to get Skunk2 Stage 3's, and like you I Autocross and Road race, and daily driver; I am currently running Crower 63402's; and what I do is adjust my cam gear's based on the event and course layout; to where I want my power band weather its on top or low or mid range; I would think that this would hold true for any cam, right; but of course with the new motor I am putting in, I know I only have so many degree's to use since it has 13:1 compression with a fully built head; My question to you is, what do you do when you need more power on a particular power band? we both know every weekend its a different course layout |
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any thoughts on this idea of changing cam gear setting based on course layout and where you want your power band? SAM |
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Great Guide. I guess the vtec engagement point changes w/ different cams, what is the optial point for, say, Toda Spec A's ? |
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Everyone needes Green eggs and SAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Quote: my new quote |
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Good work Sam. Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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