(Post Master Supreme)

09/09/08 11:53 PM

Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke

I'm getting a little tired of the lag with the Evo IX, which lots of people say is almost non-existent but under ~3300rpm, I definitely notice.

One reason is probably due to this "restrictor" pill I keep hearing/reading about, that apparently doesn't let the motor build a lot of boost in 1st gear to prevent the tranny from exploding on a hard launch. I don't launch hard EVER, not once, but I'll be damned if I didn't feel like I was driving my Integra again sometimes when I need to get-up-and-go from a stop, eg. when merging into traffic from a yield sign or a right-on-red turn. I will give the car 50% throttle and it'll just bog and bog and bog and bog, and when the turbo finally decides to spool I'm about to shift into second anyways.

Other than that, I'd just like a quicker spool all around, and not having to have the motor spinning 3300 to make any decent power. What are my options, without touching the internals or going with a new turbo? Will bolt-ons and a tune reduce lag? I've heard replacing the IC pipes with straight, bigger piping will help - is this true? Or am I stuck with this?

(Post Master Sr)

09/10/08 01:02 AM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke

That's a slippery slope you're on. All as mentioned will reduce turbo lag with some compromise. A larger downpipe and exhaust is probably the easiest way without touching the motor. Intercooler piping and such follow.

(Post Master Sr)

09/10/08 01:06 AM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke

Ceramic coating and heat wrap? Change the turbo housing? Coat the turbo?

Anti Lag? A little bit of N2O?

(Post Master Supreme)

09/10/08 01:09 AM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke

leave it alone an accept that you wont change it much on the 4g

yes its a dog out of boost down low...thats how it is.

(Major Member)

09/10/08 01:17 AM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke

Drive the car a little harder?

Other than that, you can change timing some and possibly gain a little bit of spool, but not much.

(Jr Member)

09/10/08 02:08 AM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke

100 shot.

(Post Master Sr)

09/10/08 02:10 AM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke

don't have your BOV vent to atmosphere?

Damnit, Laverty

(Post Master Supreme)

09/10/08 02:27 AM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke

My WRX did exactly that until i decatted. You still stock exhaust?

(Post Master Supreme)

09/10/08 07:00 AM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke

Sell EVO buy TDI? lol

(Post Master Sr)

09/10/08 07:10 AM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke

antilag gets my vote.

revrevrevPOPPOPPOPPOPPOPPOPPOPPOPPOPPOPPOPPOPPOP.....

(Post Master Supreme)

09/10/08 07:16 AM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke

Originally Posted By: Euphoric

leave it alone an accept that you wont change it much on the 4g

yes its a dog out of boost down low...thats how it is.

Where are you getting your information from? I'm assuming that your little bro's car noticed no noticable gains down low after flashing his ECU either, right? LoL! Like STi's some how have waaaay more potential...where are the majority of you guys coming up with these suggestions?

Anyways, if you're anywhere near AMS I suggest at least talking to them about it:

http://www.amsperformance.com/dynotuning.php

They use ECUFlash which is open source software that doesn't lock you into licensing, etc. and can be fully customized and viewed by you afterwards.

If they are too far away, or you just don't trust other people messing with your car, then start learning to do it yourself:

How-to flash your ECU using ECUFLASH

How to Tune an EVO

Whether you do it yourself, or pay someone to do it for you, buying your own wideband and logging software would still be a good idea no matter what. I'm sure that danl wouldn't mind helping you out either. I'm assuming that he would also agree that a simple catback and tune would really wake your car up though and if anything, increase driveability.

Also, I'm not sure why anyone would expect anything different out of a factory tuned F/I car. It's obviously going to be tuned ultra conservative from the factory in order to keep the majority of shit heads out there from breaking it...that doesn't mean that you are stuck with that forever though. To answer your question though, yes, a hard pipe kit did reduce lag in my buddies VIII, but I'm not sure that you will even need to get that deep into it after doing basic catback and tune. You might be completely satisfied just going with those two mawds.

(Post Master Supreme)

09/10/08 12:09 PM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke

hes actually my older brother... hes in his 30's and married..kthanks...

and while it did improve spool up a bit ...that was it. it didnt change the general way the car really is and thats what it sounds like the op wants. ive been driving my bros old dsm a boatload the last while and its the same way as the evo. doesnt have shit until that area(3300ish) its a dog below that. makes my g'fs dx feel like a torque monster in that range

but really he cant do a whole lot to drastically improve how it generally behaves. can he do other mods to try and help ..yes, but he might see 500 rpm out of that.

if hes looking for 1000+ in earlier spool time he needs a new car with a smaller turbo.

unless he uses spray

(Post Master Supreme)

09/10/08 12:22 PM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke

the nature of a 2L turbo car is that you are going to sacrifice somewhere.

I think audi does a good job of having low end torque and quick spool but im not so sure on the turbo size difference from the evo's.

You can do the basic boltons with a tune and get a little better but short of that you really need a different car if it bothers you that much

(Post Master Supreme)

09/10/08 01:21 PM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + str

I'm assuming you are talking about from a stop? Otherwise just make sure you are in the right gear?

Quickest thing beside swapping snails is a 3" exhaust. No cat resonator/muffler only.

Your i/c pipe is prolly ok for your setup. Maybe a retune to changing some timing down low.

Other than that..not much you can do.

CommonGutterTrash

(Post Master Sr)

09/10/08 01:44 PM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + str

I didn't Read anyone's posts.
have you considered going from the 10.5cm hot side to the 8.whatever?
I'm sure that's the quickest/cheapest way.
(people usually pay $$$ for the IX housings)

CommonGutterTrash

(Post Master Sr)

09/10/08 01:46 PM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + str

for the sake of argument.
If you want it to not be laggy, you have to either up the CR, make the Turbo smaller. a 3" exhaust will help, as well.

(Post Master Supreme)

09/10/08 03:45 PM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + str

Originally Posted By: Euphoric

if hes looking for 1000+ in earlier spool time he needs a new car with a smaller turbo.

Well can you tell me why people w/ IX's who add exhaust, hard pipes/intercooler, and tune for: fuel, timing, and most importantly MIVEC are decreasing their spool time by almost 1000 RPM?

I guess since your older bro experienced otherwise though than it can't exist $\:\/$

Also, I don't see why you guys are bitching anyway...lag or not, you guys are still seeing more power under 3,000 RPM than I do in my entire RPM band

$\:\($

(Post Master Supreme)

09/10/08 04:48 PM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + str

I did quite a bit of MIVEC work as well as fuel and timing work down low. I can't stand to drive a stock ecu evo anymore. I don't know what Mitsubishi is doing but they defiantly fuck around a LOT!

Other than that my DSM with a whole 1.2 CR less, less timing, no mivec, smaller cams, and halfassed injector curving does quite well off boost down low. Chalk that up to being so light.

So either tune your car yourself for driveability, get a 100 shot as mentioned (and a few spare tx cases), or drop 400-500lbs in weight.

(Post Master Sr)

09/10/08 05:37 PM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke

<3300 rpm.. >> i wish i only lagged till then lol

Also if you are bogging in first while trying to accell hard "you are doing it wrong" If by 3300 you are shifting into 2nd then you are casually accelerating and why waste the gas on more psi?

imo a lot of boost in first is not your friend anyways.

A lot of the other suggestions will get you some rpms but if you are already this anal over a stock car's lag then those mods probably wont help your perceived lag in your head that is just how turbo cars behave.

Haven't you had this car awhile? First turbo'd car?

(Post Master Sr)

09/10/08 06:24 PM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke

According to the mustang dyno, my car only make 150 rwhp at 3k rpm

Turbos suck

(Post Master Supreme)

09/10/08 07:37 PM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke

I didn't have 150hp till about 4200rpm's in the dizzm. The ebo gets 190 ft lbs of torque at 2900 or so and 150hp at a bit over 3000rpm's. That was on a haphazzard tune not really caring just doing WOT pulls. Both cars are tuned much better now.

(Post Master Supreme)

09/10/08 08:04 PM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke

i dont know why you are choosing to be a dick. im not the only one saying what I am saying. it would be nice if there was some magical way to reduce lag a lot but you cant. you have to give it up somewhere. either early spool with puke n die or some later spool and huge top end. you can try to balance it out(which the evo does well) but there isnt much you can do to drastically lower the spool time.

i was just out today in the dsm and it really has nothing until 3kish. to put around town its fine but it really has less balls down low than other n/a 4 banger cars.

(Post Master Supreme)

09/10/08 08:07 PM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke

exhaust, intake, profit? (helped my Saab spool quicker)

maybe a tune/reflash?

(Post Master Supreme)

09/10/08 08:22 PM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke

DSM's are bad, especially AWD ones, because they are so fucking heavy, have such low compression, shitty cams (even for low rpm torque) and absolutely retarded timing maps in stock form. Most of that stuff can be easily fixed. Thats not even mentioning the common high mileage 4g63 issues that cause poor off boost and in boost performance.

It was the case in 1990 and its still the case with 2006 turbo 4g's. They were built and tuned so that you can dump in 87 octane, go lap the car, and you won't hurt it. They are soft on timing, have the ability to pull almost 20 degrees of it out if need be to save the party, and run pig rich.

(Post Master Supreme)

09/10/08 08:37 PM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke

I'd like to see what a tbe, mbc and tune get me, but I'm having a hell of a time finding a dyno for an Evo IX with such mods. If it's not going to improve the lag that much, I'm not sure it's worth it, I'll just deal with it the way it is.

It's my second turbo car if you count the MX-6 GT I had, but the turbo on that was so small and the car so slow that it didn't matter if it was turbo'd or not. I think the novelty of the Evo wore off a long time ago and now I'm just looking at ways to make it feel "new" to me again.

I'm about 25 minutes away from AMS but haven't gone there because I've never had reason to. They'd be on the short list of places I'd take the car if I ever needed any aftermarket work done though.

(Post Master Supreme)

09/10/08 09:01 PM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke

This is my catback, MBC (tapering to 15psi), and tune ebo. The stock cat kills spool and I think the dyno operator was stabbing the gas at 2750 so it would have had more power sooner. I didn't really give a flying fuck about the timing. I don't push the timing hard as I like the car to be consistent every pull. The AFR's are 11.6-11.9 through the pull, which is ok, but again I spent like 10 mins on the AFR tables. This is pull #5 of 5 pulls. My hp and tq were within 1% every pull it was so consistent.

Any tuner shop, including AMS, isn't going to spend the hours it takes to dial in the part throttle portion of the maps. I've spent hours tuning these parts of my maps and MIVEC makes the tasks that much longer. You need to buy a cable and do part throttle tuning yourself. I actually make changes as the seasons change to increase driveability taking account for the weather changes.

(Post Master Supreme)

09/10/08 09:26 PM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke

Maybe you should just roll into the throttle different, going to 50% right off the bat is prolly causing some of boging. Give it 25% until 1500ish rpm.

(Post Master Sr)

09/10/08 09:40 PM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke

Reduce boost to 3-4lbs...you'll hit peak boost MUCH sooner.

(Post Master Sr)

09/10/08 10:43 PM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + str

Direct injection. All you need is a mechanical fuel pump, piezoelectric crystals, some piping that will handle 2-4000psi, some wire, a drill, a tap, a 10lb sledgehammer, some rope, and a football helmet filled with cottage cheese. Viola! No lag!

I'm so tired.

(Post Master Supreme)

09/11/08 12:41 AM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + str

lawls

(Post Master Supreme)

09/11/08 07:01 AM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + str

Originally Posted By: Euphoric

i dont know why you are choosing to be a dick. im not the only one saying what I am saying. it would be nice if there was some magical way to reduce lag a lot but you cant. you have to give it up somewhere. either early spool with puke n die or some later spool and huge top end. you can try to balance it out(which the evo does well) but there isnt much you can do to drastically lower the spool time.

i was just out today in the dsm and it really has nothing until 3kish. to put around town its fine but it really has less balls down low than other n/a 4 banger cars.

So anyone that proves you wrong is a dick? I never said that he would get ellis juan style torche if he added a few bolt-ons and a tune, but I did mention that he will find a lot more torque a lot sooner in the RPM band with those few changes. Will it be drastic? Maybe to some, but not to most. Will it feel like a different car altogether? Most definitely - which is exactly what he is looking for.

I have no problem respecting other people�s opinions, but the fact that you keep trying to pass off some DSM w/ an unknown (to us) setup as being no different than an EVO IX is absurd.

Who tuned that car? What kind of cams are in it? What turbo is he running? What do his power curves look like on the dyno?

Just because they share the same block DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY ARE THE SAME EXACT CAR!!! All you keep saying is "It's a dog. It's going to be a dog. There's nothing you can do about it cuz my brudders car is like that too." But I fail to see where you've driven either a stock, or even a properly setup IX so that you can actually have some first hand knowledge with which to compare/contrast.

To the OP: Here are some graphs as shown by Perrin:

http://www.perrinperformance.com/pages/show/91

They focus more on peak gains, but the info you are looking for is still apparant. Not saying you should go out and buy an Accessport or anything, but that's a ballpark of what you can expect with a tune in general. I thought it was also nice that they broke it down in stages so that you can see what effect fuel tuning, Mivec tuning, adding a free flowing exhaust, etc. has individually.

(Post Master Supreme)

09/11/08 11:47 AM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + str

catless Up-pipe, cat-less down-pipe, silicon inlet hose and tune.

(Post Master Supreme)

09/11/08 12:31 PM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + str

Those are great suggestions!
.
.
.
.
.
If only he drove a Suby $\:D$

(Post Master Supreme)

09/11/08 02:59 PM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + str

Don't simply remove the "restrictor". You won't hit your boost targets and won't build boost any faster. Lower boost in lower gears is physics (usually) unless the ECU is programmed otherwise. I'd get a Turboback/Tune and see if you like it. If thats not enough, a retune with a meth/water injection kit should definately get you to where you want to be.

CommonGutterTrash

(Post Master Sr)

09/11/08 03:09 PM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + str

seriously... just get the smaller hot-side...
...seriously

(Post Master Supreme)

09/11/08 05:44 PM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + str

I have an 03 evo 8 hotside. I'm thinking that is an 9cm one???? Anyways I'll trade your stock evo 9 for this one.

(Post Master Supreme)

09/11/08 09:43 PM

Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + str

Not sure how the MIVEC would play, but adjusting cam timing (via cam gears) can have a dramatic affect on turbo spool. A little ignition timing to smooth things out, and you can often shift the torque peak by maybe 1000 rpms whichever way you're seeking. You pay for this with less top end power of course.