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I might not keep up too well, but isnt that a lot of money for that car?

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It may seem like a lot of money for that car, but it'll really hold its value well.

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And it still sucks compare to the competition. Shit, for 22k, Why not just get the Supercharged Cobalt ? This whole purchase wreaks of paying sticker price for a pseudo J body, which is unheard of.

I'm not going to be nice on this purchase. It's a huge ripoff.

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I don't know why people are so uptight about resale values. Not everyone buys a car just to turn around and sell it next year. Some people do keep cars longer then 5 years.

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I don't know why people are so uptight about resale values. Not everyone buys a car just to turn around and sell it next year. Some people do keep cars longer then 5 years.

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Yes, that's MS6 territory if you look around. Also saw WRX TR's down the street from me for $21K flat no-haggle sticker price. Really tempting if it weren't for the retardedly small back seat.

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Holy crap.......you got raped. When I first I thought you paid $22k Canadian....... and even that's still pretty high

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Thank you Chazmanian and everyone else that didn't ridicule my car.

1. I like Pontiac's.
2. I don't like Volkswagen's, other then a 1stgen GTI. I think they're all overpriced girls cars. Especially when it comes to aftermarket parts and maintenance.
3. You guys try driving a stick with foot pains.
4. I don't like the look of the new Civic's other then the Si model. But the Si is over 22k.
5. 22k was OUT THE DOOR price. After taxes, title, and all of those other fees you have to pay.
6. The 2.4l Ecotec makes something a lot of other imports don't, torque. 163ft/lbs of it.
7. I don't have a need to buy a large car like a Maxima, or the money.
8. Not a big fan of the WRX, except for the STi model, and I'm sure that's over 22k new.
9. How many other cars can you get FULLY LOADED for under 22k?
10. I like my new car, it's not fast, but I have my Firebird Formula if I want to drive fast.
11. I think the Mazda 3 is ugly and I didn't want a station wagon. I could have gotten a new Vibe AWD that gets 30mpg city if I wanted a wagon.

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i have a brand new toaster that you might be interested in... allows you to stick TWO slices of bread in it at a time, it has a MP3 port, and has a three prong plug to ensure grounding.

for you, today's price only.... $3599.

or if you use the buy-it-now option, $3625.

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My brother has a MKIV, it has an atrocious backseat. Worse than the WRX, but it doesn't make the WRX any better. Why give it a backseat only to have it be a penalty box? It's no bigger than an RX8, which is much better packaged. A sedan with sucky backseats makes no sense IMO. IIRC I'd prefer a Civic hatch or Focus hatch backseat for room to the Jetta and WRX.

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I don't follow. How often do you have someone in your back seat? I have a 3 month old... so I don't see him out growing it in the near future. Maybe when he is... like 14. I could see it being a problem if I carted around 10 mexicans everywhere I drove or something but I don't

I can fit back there just fine and I am 6 feet tall... though I wouldn't want to be back there for more than an hour or so. If I need a big back seat, I take the wifes Accord.

And the RX8 is more expensive and a PITA as you have to open the front door to open the back (like if you are dropping someone off). Don't get me wrong, I like the RX8 but I needed/wanted a hatch.

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How important is the OE wing or is that pretty much a deal-breaker?

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well the wing will make the car faster, or is that an 06 si feature only?

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Well, the wing helps... but the main factor is the rake of the windshield. The new Si has a vastly superior windshield rake that totally pwns the G5's.

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Can anyone post a photo of a brand new 2 door "GT" anything with..

Leather.
Automatic
Nice Rims.
XM Radio
Wing


For the $20,500 he paid for that car?

His 22K statement was out the door right?

Can anyone think of a new car with those options, In fairly legit GT mode due to having more than 125HP.....

With Wheels and an Automatic and Leather?

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Can anyone post a photo of a brand new 2 door "GT" anything with..

Leather.
Automatic
Nice Rims.
XM Radio
Wing


For the $20,500 he paid for that car?

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+1 for RSX auto
Scion TC. 160hp/155-160tq stock. Pretty sure its a 2.4. You might even be able to get one with the TRD supercharger for less than $22k out the door.

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Can anyone post a photo of a brand new 2 door "GT" anything with..

Leather.
Automatic
Nice Rims.
XM Radio
Wing


For the $20,500 he paid for that car?

His 22K statement was out the door right?

Using 7% which is the typical sales tax rate. He paid 20.5K Pre-Tax.

Can anyone think of a new car with those options, In fairly legit GT mode due to having more than 125HP.....

With Wheels and an Automatic and Leather?

And Y'all are bashing the guy?

I thought this was a SI Vs All forum?

Maybe a good response to this thread would be to.
A.Post a photo of your car
B.Post how much it cost you
C.Prepare to be Bashed and spat on regardless of what you bought or paid for it.

Yes?

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FWIW last time I priced a new GTI it came to about 27k and a new Si was north of 25k

even my 98 GTI was about 25k new.

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All of the above= Sure you can tart up a GTI to 27k. Why would you though? With all the options a fucking Mini is 60k! Does anyone buy one like that though?
A 98 GTI wasn't 25k either. Maybe 22k if you were dumb enough to pay full sticker. My 97 GTI loaded stickered 20,990

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the new Sunfire.

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Not hardly.

I've driven cavs and sunfires, and having driven and now owning the cobalt, I can say these vehicles are head and shoulders above the J-bodies. When I test drove the cobalt, I honestly expected to be turned off by the lack of build quality inherent to the J's. But honestly the quality of the build of the car is amazing, head and shoulders above the cav/sunfire twins. I'd dare say it was as well put together as a few toyotas/hondas that i've driven

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Can anyone post a photo of a brand new 2 door "GT" anything with..

Leather.
Automatic
Nice Rims.
XM Radio
Wing


For the $20,500 he paid for that car?

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I listed about 5 in my post, nice job ignoring it though to back the new Sunfire.

Also, nice job twisting 22k out the door to 20,500. The price of the cars I buy "out the door" is car's price.

And don't pretend like adding up lame options in some shit combo makes it a good buy. OMG he got an automatic with XM radio and DEXCOOL! Find some other car to do that for 20,500 minus 1500 but the 1500 doesn't count.

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Can anyone post a photo of a brand new 2 door "GT" anything with..

Leather.
Automatic
Nice Rims.
XM Radio
Wing

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Why do you keep pointing out these crappy features like it's some kind of revolution that GM introduced them as an option to their base model vehicle? Furthermore, "cool" wheels and a wing on a Pontiac are nothing to get tight-in-the-pants over, you dolt!

That stuff comes standard on most cars these days and for well under ~$22K OTD. I mean, fuck...even a used LGT is like 3 trillion times better than that heap and it comes with all those "deal braking" features you keep mentioning + Navi. Not a 2 door, but granted, all this bitching about rear seat room might as well lead you to buy something with more doors.

It's not like he's making some huge trade-off in power or handling, etc. when stepping up to a 4 door <anything> in comparison.

Regardless, I'm not flaming him, and I doubt anyone else here cares that much about what he does/doesn't do with his money, but the market right now is EXTREMELY saturated with cars that are head and shoulders above his decision so we're all just trying to figure out "Why?"

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Looked at Scion, the G5 has more interior room.
And if I was looking at used cars, there are tons I could have bought at 20k used.

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Eh, you bought a 2 door car and are worrided about interior room?

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sky for 22 steals the square.

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Are you guys deaf or something!?!

No stock spoiler is FTL according to this dude

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sky for 22 steals the square.

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Saturn Sky Invoice = 23k
Saturn Sky MSRP = 24,595 ..
With TTL, you'd be looking at just over $27k OTD.

To get a sky for 22k out the door, you'd have to get the dealer to come down about $5k off the MSRP. They'd be selling the car for a couple thousand under invoice. I guess it's possible, but it would take some good haggling.

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sky for 22 steals the square.

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Saturn Sky Invoice = 23k
Saturn Sky MSRP = 24,595 ..
With TTL, you'd be looking at just over $27k OTD.

To get a sky for 22k out the door, you'd have to get the dealer to come down about $5k off the MSRP. They'd be selling the car for a couple thousand under invoice. I guess it's possible, but it would take some good haggling.

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Do Saturn dealerships even haggle? I thought they were a "what you see is what you pay" car company

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Ever hear of rebates? I can't believe he G5 doesn't have them like every other GM car... give it a few months.

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bingo. either rebates or free money in the form of 0% apr.
The OP got hosed because depreciation is going to own him to the tune of 50% of what he paid in less than two years
Sure he may keep it longer and not care, but say the car gets totaled....hope he has GAP.
GM is in no position to sell that thing for over 20k, but the OP proves that to be not so true
The scion TC is roomy as hell in the back and even has reclining rear seat backs. Decent power and can be had with all those options for thousands less as a base goes for 17k or so.
Civic ex coupe can be had for invoice nowadays and comes loaded sans leather.
The resale on any used car sux, but is extra sucky for GM models..all of them except the vette. Hell, he could've scored a low mileage GTO for less coin

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+1 for RSX auto
Scion TC. 160hp/155-160tq stock. Pretty sure its a 2.4. You might even be able to get one with the TRD supercharger for less than $22k out the door.

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No you wont.

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I just picked up my new black/ebony leather G5 GT on Monday night. It's the sister car to the Chevy Cobalt SS [non-supercharged model]. I got it fully loaded for just a hair over $22k out the door. I got the heated leather seats, sunroof, Pioneer 7-speaker stereo, 6-disc in-dash cd-player, side curtain airbags, free 1-year of OnStar, free 3-months of XM radio, foglights, and the remote start. I love this car, it's leaps and bounds beyond the Sunfire/Cavalier it replaced. It drives really smooth and has good power with the 2.4 Ecotec. I can easily pass on the highways, and merge in traffic. It handle really good, and takes bumps and potholes no problem. Gives great space in the cockpit, I even had to move my seat up. Lots of trunk space. Gets pretty good gas milage, 25city and 32highway. All around great car, and I'm glad I got it over any other car in it's price/power range. And I'm loving the free 3-months of XM radio.

Now for the pictures. Excuse the mess, it rained and snowed for the past couple of days here in Ohio.

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So you just spent 22,000 on a Saturn ION????? LMAO!

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Congrats on getting the car you wanted. If you are willing to pay X number of dollars, then the price doesn't matter. Bang for the buck doesn't matter either.

It sickens me when somebody wants to share something they are happy about and people roll in with their import fanboi and better-than-thou mentality and rips people apart for buying "dumbestic" "crappy GM" cars, complains that it isn't the fastest or best handling car for the money etc and when performance doesn't matter, they become metrosexual dashboard rapists. They should be happy you found something you like and wanted to tell about it.

FWIW last time I priced a new GTI it came to about 27k and a new Si was north of 25k
For a daily driver, the pontiac costs less, the ecotec is a nice engine and the parts to maintain it would be cheaper than the competition.

even my 98 GTI was about 25k new.

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Your wrong , I bought my new 06 Si for 20,850. How do you get north of 25K. This was at a Cleveland area Honda dealer BTW.

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Congrats on getting the car you wanted. If you are willing to pay X number of dollars, then the price doesn't matter. Bang for the buck doesn't matter either.

It sickens me when somebody wants to share something they are happy about and people roll in with their import fanboi and better-than-thou mentality and rips people apart for buying "dumbestic" "crappy GM" cars, complains that it isn't the fastest or best handling car for the money etc and when performance doesn't matter, they become metrosexual dashboard rapists. They should be happy you found something you like and wanted to tell about it.

FWIW last time I priced a new GTI it came to about 27k and a new Si was north of 25k
For a daily driver, the pontiac costs less, the ecotec is a nice engine and the parts to maintain it would be cheaper than the competition.

even my 98 GTI was about 25k new.

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Your wrong , I bought my new 06 Si for 20,850. How do you get north of 25K. This was at a Cleveland area Honda dealer BTW.

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So you paid MSRP on a Base Base Honda civic SI?......Dude got $1500.00 off the price of his G5. He cant get no "Props"?

Why is everyone so worried about OP paying sticker? He obviously did not pay sticker??? WTF, is this the Retardo-Room?

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The OP will be crying himself to sleep when in a few months they slap 3k in rebates on that same model.
btw..a loaded( with all the options the op has) 05' cobalt coupe LT with 15k has a kbb trade in of 12k.
that car stickered at way over 20k just a year ago

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Civic SI's out the door at 21.5K....Ummm most Folks are paying that pre-tax bro.
Check out the "what did you pay for your SI" thread in the 06 Civic SI forum. Be hard pressed to see many of them rolling out the door at that price. Would be nice but.....

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Civic SI's out the door at 21.5K....Ummm most Folks are paying that pre-tax bro.
Check out the "what did you pay for your SI" thread in the 06 Civic SI forum. Be hard pressed to see many of them rolling out the door at that price. Would be nice but.....

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Umm, that's exactly where I got my info from genious. Just because a car stickers high doesn't mean that everyone pays that price and/or follows the lead of all the other retards that "have to have it NOW!"

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You find me one single post where someone claimed to have purchased an Civic SI for 21.5K out the door,.....And I'll Pay-Pal you a Hundred Dollar bill Cobretti!

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i paid $20,290. before taxes and title fees. base no navi rallye red. waited only 3 weeks for it.

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+ 5% sales tax = ~$21,304. ~$150 for tags and that's just under $21,500.

The guy lives up the damn street from me...would you like me to go take some pictures of it w/ a "CSI > yuo" sign next to it for further proof?

Oh BTW, keep your money...it will help you out a lot more than me when you go to buy your next car for MSRP. Used or otherwise. LoLz!

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Some simply stated that they right at MSRP or 20,800Ish...Most ended up paying substancially more than that.

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I'm with the newbie here. The fact of the matter is, you cant get a lot of car for 20k these days. I think we're seeing the real damage of GM's legacy of crappiness from the last 20 years. Im looking at the G5 there and it looks kinda sporty. Nice wheels, good power, good interior, etc. With all the options, seems like it'd be a nice car to daily drive. Unfortunatley, it's gonna be hard for people to see past the "Pontiac" badge.

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Mazdaspeed 3, base MSRP $22,xxx,
[/thread]
0-60 in 5.9, 1/4 14.2 @ 100 , 264 HP/280 TQ

I'm sure ford is offering 0.0 on it

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GM felt there was a market between the 205hp SC engine and the 145hp base.

Turns out they were right.

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Cobretti????

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Who the hell is Cobretti? lol

I do agree with you 100 percent on your argument though.


LOL Here is a picture of my truck and how much I paid for it...


It was stickered for $10,900 with just 72,000 miles at a Honda Dealer. I talked them down to around $10,600 and they also deleted the bullshit three hundred dollar charge for vehicle preperation. LOL Paint protectant. I took the sales manager and salesman over to a brand new Pilot on the showroom floor. I quickly found on the window sticker the dealer added a charge of $499.00 dollars for tape pinstriping. In a very loud voice where other customers could here, I told him I could buy the identical tape pinstriping for ten dollars at Autozone and apply it just like that within forty five minutes by myself. And then since I had there attention, I asked him how exactly that paint protectant is applied that I was paying three hundred dollars for, I asked if it was buffed on or sprayed on. When he answered that it was sprayed on, I just started laughing. It was probably just hosed on wax or something like you get for seventy five cents at the local spray and wash. He deleted that charge pretty quickly.

I do have little experience in haggling with car dealers and I still didn't talk them down as much as I hoped too.


I have had to put roughly thirteen hundred dollars into the truck to fix some things that were wrong with it. But at the time I bought it, it MSRP'd for twelve thousand and brand new it was a thirty thousand dollar truck back in 1999. And now that everything is fixed, it has a new timing chain and water pump as of last week, the plenum gasket should never fail again, aside from perhaps a clutch at some point, it is good to go for 250+ thousand miles.


EDIT: What kind of gas mileage are you getting in that new Tacoma? Does the TRD version have any more power than a non TRD Tacoma?

I know very little about the new Tacomas.

With just a muffler and air cleaner on the Dakota, I am getting ~16 miles per gallon in town and 19-20 miles per gallon on the highway. lol When I first got it, I was averaging low 14's in town and if lucky 16 or 17 miles per gallon on the highway.

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Cobretti????

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Who the hell is Cobretti? lol

I do agree with you 100 percent on your argument though.


LOL Here is a picture of my truck and how much I paid for it...


It was stickered for $10,900 with just 72,000 miles at a Honda Dealer. I talked them down to around $10,600 and they also deleted the bullshit three hundred dollar charge for vehicle preperation. LOL Paint protectant. I took the sales manager and salesman over to a brand new Pilot on the showroom floor. I quickly found on the window sticker the dealer added a charge of $499.00 dollars for tape pinstriping. In a very loud voice where other customers could here, I told him I could buy the identical tape pinstriping for ten dollars at Autozone and apply it just like that within forty five minutes by myself. And then since I had there attention, I asked him how exactly that paint protectant is applied that I was paying three hundred dollars for, I asked if it was buffed on or sprayed on. When he answered that it was sprayed on, I just started laughing. It was probably just hosed on wax or something like you get for seventy five cents at the local spray and wash. He deleted that charge pretty quickly.

I do have little experience in haggling with car dealers and I still didn't talk them down as much as I hoped too.


I have had to put roughly thirteen hundred dollars into the truck to fix some things that were wrong with it. But at the time I bought it, it MSRP'd for twelve thousand and brand new it was a thirty thousand dollar truck back in 1999. And now that everything is fixed, it has a new timing chain and water pump as of last week, the plenum gasket should never fail again, aside from perhaps a clutch at some point, it is good to go for 250+ thousand miles.


EDIT: What kind of gas mileage are you getting in that new Tacoma? Does the TRD version have any more power than a non TRD Tacoma?

I know very little about the new Tacomas.

With just a muffler and air cleaner on the Dakota, I am getting ~16 miles per gallon in town and 19-20 miles per gallon on the highway. lol When I first got it, I was averaging low 14's in town and if lucky 16 or 17 miles per gallon on the highway.

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GM felt there was a market between the 205hp SC engine and the 145hp base.

Turns out they were right.

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Sure, but there would also be a market for the 205 hp engine and they are losing sales and creditability, especially among young male buyers, by not offering it.

Just think of the 300 or Charger only came with the 2 V6 engines (2.7 and 3.5). Sure, there would be a market for the 3.5, but they would be losing sales by not offering the 5.7.

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I'm not going to say that GM has hit a "Homer" with the G5 GT but...they did offer a product with lots of features for a fairly reasonable price.

I have never owned a GM product...

If I were in the market for a new truck I would certainly look at the new GM full size.

But I'm not I'm in the market for a small economical car. A Civic SI to be exact.

Maybe a GTI.

If anyone can locate me a 2007 Light Colored Civic in the state of Colorado for $21.5 "Out The Door"

I WILL PAY-PAL THEM $200 AS SOON AS I TAKE DELIVERY OF MY NEW SI...

WHICH I WILL WRITE A CREDIT UNION CHECK FOR.

Cobretti???? Help a Bruthah' out with all your "Mad" car buying skills?

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Dont take offense guy who actually owns the G5 GT.

It is almost painfully obvious who the "Target" market is for that car.

Anyone?

Yeah, Its a Girl car.

That car has got to be targeted at 30 something women who make 40 something a year, and cant afford an Accord V-6 Coupe or Solara.

And them Broads dont need no SuperCharger's.

And probably dont care.

Yikes...Just my first impression.

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At least it isn't a Volkswagen. And I see more girls in my area driving the older Sunfire/Cavalier, 2nd/3rd/4thgen Eclipse, lastgen Grand Am, more then any other car.

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Bullshit. The G5 is a girl car. Who in there right mind would buy this 2.4 Saturn Ion is beyond me.

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I just built one on pontiac's website. I had no idea they were that expensive. WOW!

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A real eye opener to me was pricing a 2007 GM Canyon w/ most of the options. Wow.

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At least it isn't a Volkswagen. And I see more girls in my area driving the older Sunfire/Cavalier, 2nd/3rd/4thgen Eclipse, lastgen Grand Am, more then any other car.

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At least with the VW you can get a high 14 sec car with a decent suspension....

What are you doing in this forum?

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For 22k, you should be in a full sized car.

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Or pay $30k for an overpriced GTI R32 that only has 240hp. Can get an Evo/STi for about the same price but with more horsepower. And all Audi's are overpriced VW's.

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BTW, what did you pay for the G5 Pre-Tax??

The major issue continues to be the "Impression" that you actually paid a full 22K for the Gee-Five....In reality you have a State, County and City that needs:

Cops, Buses, Sheriffs, Shelters, Welfare,Roads, Road Crews, Jails, Prisons,Bridges, Mayors, Guv-Nuhs,Foster care, Parks, Pools, Woods, Homeless Guys getting Drunk in said Woods.

All supported by your Tax Dollars.

This list could get so long it would be insane..

What was actual sticker and what did you pay?

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you'll find few here to defend the R32 in anything

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I've changed my tune. It's NOT a dual purpose car, but I can see it making a great daily driver. In the US it's sort of an oddball because it's a class of one. In Europe, where there's not only a class of "premium compacts", there's also the Alfa 147 GTA, a car with a very similar spec sheet, to compete with.



It's just a shame that the US market got the wrong car.

cheers,
scott

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GM felt there was a market between the 205hp SC engine and the 145hp base.

Turns out they were right.

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Sure, but there would also be a market for the 205 hp engine and they are losing sales and creditability, especially among young male buyers, by not offering it.

Just think of the 300 or Charger only came with the 2 V6 engines (2.7 and 3.5). Sure, there would be a market for the 3.5, but they would be losing sales by not offering the 5.7.

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I use photobucket.com

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GM felt there was a market between the 205hp SC engine and the 145hp base.

Turns out they were right.

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Sure, but there would also be a market for the 205 hp engine and they are losing sales and creditability, especially among young male buyers, by not offering it.

Just think of the 300 or Charger only came with the 2 V6 engines (2.7 and 3.5). Sure, there would be a market for the 3.5, but they would be losing sales by not offering the 5.7.

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I think GM made a choice not to have all of the same options between the G5 and the Cobalt, GM doesnt wnt a repeat ofthe J-body tiwns. I don't think we will ever see an S/C G5.

A little side note, GM never indended to sell a pontiac version of the Cobalt in the USA. Although in canada there was a pontiac model released at the same time as the Cobalt , called the pursuit.

Just like the sunfire, the Pursuit (now G5) is out selling the Cobalt I guess GM decided to give it a chance in the US.

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For 22k, you should be in a full sized car.

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I'm not the least bit opposed to paying $22k for a compact car of econobox origins. But the motor and suspension tuning better be something special.

cheers,
scott

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As long as they don't put hood scoups on it. im ok.


If GM does make a GXP version, it should be the turbo motor.

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What no "Faux" scoops....WTF even my Tacoma has the mandatory "Faux" scoops....Bastards. When I bought this truck and asked the retarded ass salesman what the fuck good is a soop that dont scoop he said......Its an important part of the sport package sir! What an Idiot....Lucky for me the Scoop that dont scoop gives me like...15 X-tra HP....Placebo HorsePower! Still prefer my sport over the off-road as all the trim is color keyed and it gets the 17" rims.

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HAHAH I got 10.5mpg towing across the rocky mountains the long way... in My F150 with 15,960lbs of combined wieght between it and my 20ft enclosed car hauler.

guess my lowtech V8 with only 3 valves a cylinder sucks

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In essence I end up running it on the Interstates all "Wound-Out" when pulling a Trailer at around 3000+ RPM's so I can maintain 70-75 MPH.

It will not "Hold" Overdrive and needs to be driven in 4th sometimes even 3rd.

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Somebody correct me if I'm wrong... although I realize 3000# isn't much of a load, I thought you were *never* supposed to tow in OD?

Although I must admit, when I tow <5,000# in my tahoe, I usually have it in OD and just cruise around 65-70 mph. It does have the towing package though (tranny cooler, etc). If there is even a hint of an uphill I slow and get it out of OD.

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In essence I end up running it on the Interstates all "Wound-Out" when pulling a Trailer at around 3000+ RPM's so I can maintain 70-75 MPH.

It will not "Hold" Overdrive and needs to be driven in 4th sometimes even 3rd.

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Somebody correct me if I'm wrong... although I realize 3000# isn't much of a load, I thought you were *never* supposed to tow in OD?

Although I must admit, when I tow <5,000# in my tahoe, I usually have it in OD and just cruise around 65-70 mph. It does have the towing package though (tranny cooler, etc). If there is even a hint of an uphill I slow and get it out of OD.

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yeah for gods sake lose the banner on the truck, im sure it says TRD 14-15 other places.

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god, you get 10mpg towing 1800lbs? I don't even notice that small of a trailer

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A low end torque monster V-8 the 4.0L Toyota motor will never be. But....I'll race you dammit!

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I'll race you!
I had looked into the new mid size Nissan Frontier's. I would forever miss my 5.2 liter in my Dakota though. I sure do miss my old 2wd 1993 Magnum 5.2 liter Dakota though. 300 lb-ft of torque with a 3.92 LSD rear end was a lot of fun in that truck, which didn't really weigh all that much for a midsize truck.

How much does that Tacoma weigh? My truck is around 4720 pounds; that was with about 150 pounds of junk in the toolbox. I don't remember though if that was without me in it or not. I need to remove the toolbox, get my junk out of the truck and weigh it again without me in it and with a full tank of gas. Just for curiosity.

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"Every" "time" you use "quotation marks" where they "aren't" " necessary" it makes "me" want to "reach" through "the" "internet" and "stab" you "in" the "face."

Gah.

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A low end torque monster V-8 the 4.0L Toyota motor will never be. But....I'll race you dammit!

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I'll race you!
I had looked into the new mid size Nissan Frontier's. I would forever miss my 5.2 liter in my Dakota though. I sure do miss my old 2wd 1993 Magnum 5.2 liter Dakota though. 300 lb-ft of torque with a 3.92 LSD rear end was a lot of fun in that truck, which didn't really weigh all that much for a midsize truck.

How much does that Tacoma weigh? My truck is around 4720 pounds; that was with about 150 pounds of junk in the toolbox. I don't remember though if that was without me in it or not. I need to remove the toolbox, get my junk out of the truck and weigh it again without me in it and with a full tank of gas. Just for curiosity.

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I honestly did not realize you Pussy Ass Canadians were so.....Violent?
Sorry if I offended you.

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"Every" "time" you use "quotation marks" where they "aren't" " necessary" it makes "me" want to "reach" through "the" "internet" and "stab" you "in" the "face."

Gah.

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I honestly did not realize you Pussy Ass Canadians were so.....Violent?
Sorry if I offended you.

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