#3000978 - 09/09/08 11:53 PM
Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke
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Noob4Life
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 26653
Loc: IL, USA
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I'm getting a little tired of the lag with the Evo IX, which lots of people say is almost non-existent but under ~3300rpm, I definitely notice.
One reason is probably due to this "restrictor" pill I keep hearing/reading about, that apparently doesn't let the motor build a lot of boost in 1st gear to prevent the tranny from exploding on a hard launch. I don't launch hard EVER, not once, but I'll be damned if I didn't feel like I was driving my Integra again sometimes when I need to get-up-and-go from a stop, eg. when merging into traffic from a yield sign or a right-on-red turn. I will give the car 50% throttle and it'll just bog and bog and bog and bog, and when the turbo finally decides to spool I'm about to shift into second anyways.
Other than that, I'd just like a quicker spool all around, and not having to have the motor spinning 3300 to make any decent power. What are my options, without touching the internals or going with a new turbo? Will bolt-ons and a tune reduce lag? I've heard replacing the IC pipes with straight, bigger piping will help - is this true? Or am I stuck with this?
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#3001215 - 09/10/08 01:17 AM
Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke
[Re: Euphoricuck]
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FWDcar
Major Member
Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 1357
Loc: Cottage Grove, MN
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Drive the car a little harder?
Other than that, you can change timing some and possibly gain a little bit of spool, but not much.
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2004 Pontiac GTO 6speed (SOLD, Stupid me!)
1998 Dodge Neon of DOOM! (Current Whip)
Next up: White Lexus SC300 5sp. or GPW S2000
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#3001276 - 09/10/08 02:27 AM
Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke
[Re: Driven]
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Damnit, Laverty
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 04/27/00
Posts: 12564
Loc: Bellevue, WA
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My WRX did exactly that until i decatted. You still stock exhaust?
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'95 M3 | '99 Garage Shelf
"Life before [CSi] wasn't looking good, I had a small cock, smaller wallet, and had a girl that was getting railed by 5 HUGE black guys." -AZSnake
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#3001386 - 09/10/08 07:00 AM
Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke
[Re: Damnit, Laverty]
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LNXGUY
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 08/06/00
Posts: 106940
Loc: Barrie, Ont,
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Sell EVO buy TDI? lol
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-Bill The GN would OWN you, your children and your children's children. '09 E90 335 d 
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#3001391 - 09/10/08 07:10 AM
Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke
[Re: LNXGUY]
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MikeY2kSS
Post Master Sr
Registered: 10/12/00
Posts: 6080
Loc: Cent/South NJ
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antilag gets my vote.
revrevrevPOPPOPPOPPOPPOPPOPPOPPOPPOPPOPPOPPOPPOP.....
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#3001394 - 09/10/08 07:16 AM
Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke
[Re: Euphoricuck]
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FCobra94
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 10/22/01
Posts: 19689
Loc: MD
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leave it alone an accept that you wont change it much on the 4g
yes its a dog out of boost down low...thats how it is.
Where are you getting your information from? I'm assuming that your little bro's car noticed no noticable gains down low after flashing his ECU either, right? LoL! Like STi's some how have waaaay more potential...where are the majority of you guys coming up with these suggestions?
Anyways, if you're anywhere near AMS I suggest at least talking to them about it:
http://www.amsperformance.com/dynotuning.php
They use ECUFlash which is open source software that doesn't lock you into licensing, etc. and can be fully customized and viewed by you afterwards.
If they are too far away, or you just don't trust other people messing with your car, then start learning to do it yourself:
How-to flash your ECU using ECUFLASH
How to Tune an EVO
Whether you do it yourself, or pay someone to do it for you, buying your own wideband and logging software would still be a good idea no matter what. I'm sure that danl wouldn't mind helping you out either. I'm assuming that he would also agree that a simple catback and tune would really wake your car up though and if anything, increase driveability.
Also, I'm not sure why anyone would expect anything different out of a factory tuned F/I car. It's obviously going to be tuned ultra conservative from the factory in order to keep the majority of shit heads out there from breaking it...that doesn't mean that you are stuck with that forever though. To answer your question though, yes, a hard pipe kit did reduce lag in my buddies VIII, but I'm not sure that you will even need to get that deep into it after doing basic catback and tune. You might be completely satisfied just going with those two mawds.
_________________________
'07 335i
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#3002408 - 09/10/08 12:22 PM
Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke
[Re: Euphoricuck]
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OnyxEros
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 02/17/03
Posts: 17515
Loc: Seattle
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the nature of a 2L turbo car is that you are going to sacrifice somewhere.
I think audi does a good job of having low end torque and quick spool but im not so sure on the turbo size difference from the evo's.
You can do the basic boltons with a tune and get a little better but short of that you really need a different car if it bothers you that much
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[quote=turbo_guy_fieri][quote=Kuku]Silence is consent[/quote] [/quote]
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#3002766 - 09/10/08 01:44 PM
Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + str
[Re: SiAdam]
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CommonGutterTrash
This user is more useless than a half-baked compost pile.
Post Master Sr
Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 6437
Loc: Boston MA
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I didn't Read anyone's posts.
have you considered going from the 10.5cm hot side to the 8.whatever?
I'm sure that's the quickest/cheapest way.
(people usually pay $$$ for the IX housings)
_________________________
Craig R. 2000 9-5 Gary Fisher Wagon 1995 850 T-5R 1996 Galant  AIM = gclipse96
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#3002772 - 09/10/08 01:46 PM
Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + str
[Re: CommonGutterTrash]
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CommonGutterTrash
This user is more useless than a half-baked compost pile.
Post Master Sr
Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 6437
Loc: Boston MA
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for the sake of argument.
If you want it to not be laggy, you have to either up the CR, make the Turbo smaller. a 3" exhaust will help, as well.
_________________________
Craig R. 2000 9-5 Gary Fisher Wagon 1995 850 T-5R 1996 Galant AIM = gclipse96
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#3003933 - 09/10/08 05:37 PM
Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke
[Re: Noob4Life]
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Anything
Post Master Sr
Registered: 04/11/01
Posts: 8381
Loc: Wi
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<3300 rpm.. >> i wish i only lagged till then lol
Also if you are bogging in first while trying to accell hard "you are doing it wrong" If by 3300 you are shifting into 2nd then you are casually accelerating and why waste the gas on more psi?
imo a lot of boost in first is not your friend anyways.
A lot of the other suggestions will get you some rpms but if you are already this anal over a stock car's lag then those mods probably wont help your perceived lag in your head that is just how turbo cars behave.
Haven't you had this car awhile? First turbo'd car?
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[This message has been edited by Outkast on November 07, 2001 @ ]
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#3004351 - 09/10/08 08:07 PM
Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke
[Re: Euphoricuck]
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aerosaaber
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 06/29/02
Posts: 16004
Loc: Pittsfield, MA
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exhaust, intake, profit? (helped my Saab spool quicker)
maybe a tune/reflash?
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2006 Subaru WRX Wagon (I'm back on boost!) 2001 Subaru Legacy Outback Wagon Limited (sold) 1994 Saab 9000 Aero (gone) http://www.saabrally.com
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#3004465 - 09/10/08 08:37 PM
Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke
[Re: danl]
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Noob4Life
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 26653
Loc: IL, USA
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I'd like to see what a tbe, mbc and tune get me, but I'm having a hell of a time finding a dyno for an Evo IX with such mods. If it's not going to improve the lag that much, I'm not sure it's worth it, I'll just deal with it the way it is.
It's my second turbo car if you count the MX-6 GT I had, but the turbo on that was so small and the car so slow that it didn't matter if it was turbo'd or not. I think the novelty of the Evo wore off a long time ago and now I'm just looking at ways to make it feel "new" to me again.
I'm about 25 minutes away from AMS but haven't gone there because I've never had reason to. They'd be on the short list of places I'd take the car if I ever needed any aftermarket work done though.
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#3004571 - 09/10/08 09:01 PM
Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + stroke
[Re: Noob4Life]
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danl
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 07/14/00
Posts: 12515
Loc: Maryland USA
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This is my catback, MBC (tapering to 15psi), and tune ebo. The stock cat kills spool and I think the dyno operator was stabbing the gas at 2750 so it would have had more power sooner. I didn't really give a flying fuck about the timing. I don't push the timing hard as I like the car to be consistent every pull. The AFR's are 11.6-11.9 through the pull, which is ok, but again I spent like 10 mins on the AFR tables. This is pull #5 of 5 pulls. My hp and tq were within 1% every pull it was so consistent.
Any tuner shop, including AMS, isn't going to spend the hours it takes to dial in the part throttle portion of the maps. I've spent hours tuning these parts of my maps and MIVEC makes the tasks that much longer. You need to buy a cable and do part throttle tuning yourself. I actually make changes as the seasons change to increase driveability taking account for the weather changes.
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#3005467 - 09/11/08 07:01 AM
Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + str
[Re: Euphoricuck]
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FCobra94
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 10/22/01
Posts: 19689
Loc: MD
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i dont know why you are choosing to be a dick. im not the only one saying what I am saying. it would be nice if there was some magical way to reduce lag a lot but you cant. you have to give it up somewhere. either early spool with puke n die or some later spool and huge top end. you can try to balance it out(which the evo does well) but there isnt much you can do to drastically lower the spool time.
i was just out today in the dsm and it really has nothing until 3kish. to put around town its fine but it really has less balls down low than other n/a 4 banger cars.
So anyone that proves you wrong is a dick? I never said that he would get ellis juan style torche if he added a few bolt-ons and a tune, but I did mention that he will find a lot more torque a lot sooner in the RPM band with those few changes. Will it be drastic? Maybe to some, but not to most. Will it feel like a different car altogether? Most definitely - which is exactly what he is looking for.
I have no problem respecting other people’s opinions, but the fact that you keep trying to pass off some DSM w/ an unknown (to us) setup as being no different than an EVO IX is absurd.
Who tuned that car? What kind of cams are in it? What turbo is he running? What do his power curves look like on the dyno?
Just because they share the same block DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY ARE THE SAME EXACT CAR!!! All you keep saying is "It's a dog. It's going to be a dog. There's nothing you can do about it cuz my brudders car is like that too." But I fail to see where you've driven either a stock, or even a properly setup IX so that you can actually have some first hand knowledge with which to compare/contrast.
To the OP: Here are some graphs as shown by Perrin:
http://www.perrinperformance.com/pages/show/91
They focus more on peak gains, but the info you are looking for is still apparant. Not saying you should go out and buy an Accessport or anything, but that's a ballpark of what you can expect with a tune in general. I thought it was also nice that they broke it down in stages so that you can see what effect fuel tuning, Mivec tuning, adding a free flowing exhaust, etc. has individually.
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'07 335i
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#3006342 - 09/11/08 11:47 AM
Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + str
[Re: FCobra94]
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LuckyRVA
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 08/30/02
Posts: 15210
Loc: Queens, NY
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catless Up-pipe, cat-less down-pipe, silicon inlet hose and tune.
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#3007175 - 09/11/08 02:59 PM
Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + str
[Re: FCobra94]
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Chris92Sc2
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 12/21/00
Posts: 13705
Loc: MI USA
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Don't simply remove the "restrictor". You won't hit your boost targets and won't build boost any faster. Lower boost in lower gears is physics (usually) unless the ECU is programmed otherwise. I'd get a Turboback/Tune and see if you like it. If thats not enough, a retune with a meth/water injection kit should definately get you to where you want to be.
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#3007229 - 09/11/08 03:09 PM
Re: Ways to reduce turbo lag, other than +displacement + str
[Re: Chris92Sc2]
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CommonGutterTrash
This user is more useless than a half-baked compost pile.
Post Master Sr
Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 6437
Loc: Boston MA
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seriously... just get the smaller hot-side...
...seriously
_________________________
Craig R. 2000 9-5 Gary Fisher Wagon 1995 850 T-5R 1996 Galant AIM = gclipse96
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