#4330129 - 12/11/09 02:54 PM
Starting a new post, carnage pics - Bent rod oh my!
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ElectronVTEC2
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#4330152 - 12/11/09 03:01 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: ElectronVTEC2]
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danl
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 07/14/00
Posts: 12516
Loc: Maryland USA
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Failed harmonic tensioner?
Also, carnage game. This cylinder went lean, at 38-40psi.
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#4330156 - 12/11/09 03:03 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: danl]
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ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
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The tensioner (I'm assuming that's the same as the harmonic balancer?) looks to be in decent shape but yea, it ate the fuck out of the lower cover. I'm already planning on replacing both of those pieces, for starters...
Todd
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2011 Edge (Wife's appliance) EVO IX MR, minor mods 
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#4330158 - 12/11/09 03:04 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: ElectronVTEC2]
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ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
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Almost forgot, carnage pics rule - nice piston, that a new aerodynamic mod?
Todd
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2011 Edge (Wife's appliance) EVO IX MR, minor mods
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#4330173 - 12/11/09 03:09 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: ElectronVTEC2]
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ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
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Looks like you're right, Dan - the harmonic balancer. I separated it from the lower cover then separated it from itself and the rubber is shot to hell. Most of the rubber is missing or torn out...
Todd
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2011 Edge (Wife's appliance) EVO IX MR, minor mods
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#4330228 - 12/11/09 03:23 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: danl]
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ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
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I have a used head on the way, complete with everything I need to drop in and go. Paid $125 for it on the link forums and they haven't let me down yet. I didn't figure I could get replacement parts and machine work done for that and this way I have a spare head to leave in the garage and take my time getting it healthy again. Going to a composite gasket, new water pump, gasket, o-ring, timing belt, and the two parts I've found so far (balancer and lower cover).
On the HG, I bought some copper spray but haven't used that on a HG before. Do I spray the block with copper spray and then put the HG in place and bolt the head down? Also, on the water pump, I've seen where I should put a thin layer of RTV on the pump gasket surface, place the gasket on the pump with a little weight and let it sit overnight. Then, a thin layer of RTV where the pump mounts up and bolt it all in place. Does that all sound correct?
Thanks for your help Dan, you have no idea how grateful I am for your advice.
Todd
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2011 Edge (Wife's appliance) EVO IX MR, minor mods
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#4330402 - 12/11/09 03:58 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: ElectronVTEC2]
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danl
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 07/14/00
Posts: 12516
Loc: Maryland USA
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I do not use copper spray on headgaskets. Both my friend and I run stock composites and we put them on dry, that is how they are designed. We also reuise stock 6 bolt headbolts. Stock composite + stock headgasket goes 10's all day long if you don't detonate it. Just make sure the head and block are clean. You should have fresh iron and fresh aluminum. It can be 2-4 thou out with a composite, so don't worry too much, you don't push your hedgasket hard.
I use copper spray for the OEM water pump gaskets, front case gaskets, etc. Spray it on, let it get tacky, lay it on the water pump, and you can now slip the water pump on with gasket. Torque in sequence and its a low tq number, don't over do it. Overdoing it will warp your surfaces and you can get a leak. Vaseline on the water pump o-ring.
Pad the oil pan with an old rug when you have your jack under it so you don't dent it. You can now rock the engine up/down 8" or so to get better access to different components on the timing side of the engine. Also the timing belt kit from jayracing.com makes things nicer.
Good luck, the harmonic balancer failing has claimed others just like yourself.
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#4330680 - 12/11/09 05:32 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: ]
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ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
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Chuck, the "new" head should be in good enough shape to bolt on and go. I will give it the eyeball treatment when I get it but other than possibly putting new exh. manifold studs in, I'll most likely put it on like I got it. Cash is just a little tight right now with the holidays and since this is my winter car, I need it back to a running state yesterday  I did do most of the maintenance items when we swapped in my 6 bolt last April though (front/rear main seals, etc...).
I also found a bigger issue than the crank balancer and is probably the reason I have bent intake valves (I eyeballed the rockers when I popped the VC last night, all the rockers were on. Funny thing is if you so much as breathe on the 1,2, and 4 intake rockers, they fall off). So, yea... Anyway, my timing belt tensioner pulley bolt was only finger tight. I thought something might be up when I saw the two eyelets pointing perpendicular to the ground instead of horizontal and above the bolt, but I went to untension the belt by undoing that bolt and was shocked when I could spin it out by hand. I found my timing belt tensioner rod tool so I'll do it the right way next time, but it really didn't matter at this point. When I put it all back together, does that bolt get thread locker on it? I didn't torque that bolt down last time but I know who did... hehe.
Todd
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2011 Edge (Wife's appliance) EVO IX MR, minor mods
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#4330741 - 12/11/09 06:00 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: ElectronVTEC2]
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progressi
Post Master Sr
Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 9133
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Todd,I wish I could give you advice,but with Dan here it's pointless-all I can do is nod. lol
But I can tell you this. Beat this car,wrench on it til' you get it right. Make this an accomplishment and come out of it stronger. These are awesome cars but they can and have tested the resolve of good mechanics. They're just getting too old and have seen too much abuse-both intentional and otherwise.
When I was new with my DSM there were days I was sick of it,but they became fewer and far between. It was tough because I had a 60 mile daily commute to make with it and I could never afford to be broken down. The commute was hilly,often in 100 degree heat with the AC running and Id be stuck in traffic often. Having said all that,the car never let me down-never broke down. It had issues at time,but most of them were just performance issues,not necessarily drivability. I blame most of those performance issues on the nasty CA gas,ask Dano about that.
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#4330955 - 12/11/09 08:13 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: progressi]
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CommonGutterTrash
This user is more useless than a half-baked compost pile.
Post Master Sr
Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 6437
Loc: Boston MA
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FWIW, I had an un-dampened UR pulley on my FWD for a long while.
you can pick them up cheap, and they ARE balanced, but not having the damper could do damage if you're high-revving.
finding a good aftermarket replacement damper isn't toooo hard.
I'm like 90% sure Dorman sells one. I think we sold them @ 1a.
here's one for a 7-bolt:
http://www.1aauto.com/1A/HarmonicBalancer/Mitsubishi/Eclipse/1AEHB00007/359622
I'm pretty sure they're interchangable.
no matter WHAT the seller says about the "new" head, bring it by a machine shop, and have them vacuum test it, at minimum.
I'm a fan of the evoIII/ralliart/MLS HG for the 4g63. they're pretty rugged, and if you happen to lift the head, you can re-torque it down, and you haven't blown any of the "paper" out, like an OE/composite would. if nothing else, the fact that they're 100% re-usable is pretty cool.
and, as dan said. spray-shit is only for cometics, and those suck, anyways.
lastly, don't EVER lean on a breaker bar to try and crank a motor.
if the valves were somehow NOT bent, they sure as fuck are, now.
Just cut the timing belt, and have a look. you'll be able to see damage on the toothed side if the belt pretty easily, if the belt skipped, and at this point, you're pulling the head, no matter what.
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Craig R. 2000 9-5 Gary Fisher Wagon 1995 850 T-5R 1996 Galant  AIM = gclipse96
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#4333932 - 12/13/09 08:42 AM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: danl]
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ElectronVTEC2
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#4336349 - 12/14/09 03:01 AM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: ElectronVTEC2]
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Relix
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 16256
Loc: 640 acres of desert
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ouch
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Don't feed the troll BigAl or Albundy or Alfonso 1976 Fj55 landcruiser, 39" krawlers, front and rear lockers, on board air compressor , 16 speed transmission 1977 fj40 stock 1987 fj60 locked front and rear 33" tires 
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#4347044 - 12/16/09 07:03 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: Relix]
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ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
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Little bit of an update. I dropped the pan and tried to "move" the crank and as far as my inexperienced ass can tell, there is no play side to side or in/out, at least not that I can create with my arms. Everything looks good in the pan, no flakes/glitter so my friend and I are going to pull out the rods, re-ring all of the pistons, hone/clean the block slightly, and put new bearings in. I looked at a few of the cylinder walls closely and you can still see crosshatch on them so I don't think we need much cleaning/honing.
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#4348904 - 12/17/09 10:40 AM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: Euphoricuck]
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ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
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I just realized, I didn't post anything up about what I found the other day. I've had low compression in #3 for months (130 or so vs 150-ish in the other three) and now I know why. Well, I should say, I'll know for sure tonight when I pull that rod/piston out but it looks like I have a bent rod in #3. It doesn't come up to the same height as the rest of the assembly. So, the pistons are all coming out, the motor is getting a quick ball-hone treatment, and new rings/rod bearings are going in. Yay motor rebuild! I figure it's the time to do it since everything is already apart and the cost is miniscule so why the hell not... No new internals are going in (save for a replacement stock rod) as I do not have plans to take this car any further than it is right now power-wise.
Todd
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#4350019 - 12/17/09 02:50 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: danl]
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ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
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I have been told that if I were to go with ARP rod bolts that I'd need to get the big ends of the rods machined out to work correctly.
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#4350074 - 12/17/09 02:59 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: ElectronVTEC2]
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ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
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Oh yea, Dan, the consensus at this point on DSMLink is that a bent rod + two broken exhaust valves tells them the motor hydrolocked at some point. That's the theory at this point...
Todd
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#4350769 - 12/17/09 06:35 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: ElectronVTEC2]
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CommonGutterTrash
This user is more useless than a half-baked compost pile.
Post Master Sr
Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 6437
Loc: Boston MA
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you will need machining for ARP's.
also, don't pull the crank/main bearings unless you have to.
That's where 90% of "Rebuild" failures occur; between the main caps, the oil pump, and whatever else...
With a motor as square as the 4g, there's rarely a reason to to the mains, unless the motor was starved for oil for a "long time"
Just do the rings, and rod bearings.
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Craig R. 2000 9-5 Gary Fisher Wagon 1995 850 T-5R 1996 Galant AIM = gclipse96
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#4350874 - 12/17/09 07:32 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: ElectronVTEC2]
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danl
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 07/14/00
Posts: 12516
Loc: Maryland USA
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That rod is bad, real bad. Amazing it didn't snap actually. That thing definitely saw water.
Reuse the rod bolts then, I was always told this was a no no. I never touch cranks other than make sure they have acceptable clearance, and they always have. 1.5-2.5 thou (even 3 thou with thick oil) is acceptable for street usage on these engines. I don't touch them up with emery cloth. My friend did after he drove 20 miles on a 4g with no oil pressure (long story but he had to get to class and work). So just wrap the crank with rags and seran wrap or alumium foil as best you can. Then do the piston ring with a rag trick at the bottom of the cylinders. Tape off the coolant passages and oil feed in the block so you don't get stuff down there. I use WD40 as my lubricant and give each cylinder 60-80 seconds with the hone in a drill shooting for a 60 deg cross hatch pattern. I'd say 30 rpm in the drill moving it up and down in the bore as you go. When you are done wipe down the cylinder with brake cleaner or acetone until it comes off clean. It takes some work, but it should be clean when you wipe it. I then lubricate the bores and piston/ring assembly with motor oil and stuff it in the hole (well tap it) with a dead blow hammer and LIGHT taps in case a ring is hanging up. Bolt the rods down and throw a piece of plasticgauge on each rod journal to see if you are ok on your clearances, mostly to make sure you have the right size bearings, plasticgauge is NOT how you spec out a motor, mic and bore gauge is for specing clearances. Anyways torque her down, double check your torque, triple check. Rotate motor, make sure things seem right. Put the oil pickup back on with a new gasket. I use the copper spray here, works well. Throw the pan back up on after making sure surfaces are CLEAN with acetone. I use permatex orange high temp, works really well. Audi/VW makes some nice stuff as well. The rest you should know by now, unfortunately.
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#4350986 - 12/17/09 08:18 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: progressi]
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ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
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Todd,I wish I could give you advice,but with Dan here it's pointless-all I can do is nod. lol
But I can tell you this. Beat this car,wrench on it til' you get it right. Make this an accomplishment and come out of it stronger. These are awesome cars but they can and have tested the resolve of good mechanics. They're just getting too old and have seen too much abuse-both intentional and otherwise.
When I was new with my DSM there were days I was sick of it,but they became fewer and far between. It was tough because I had a 60 mile daily commute to make with it and I could never afford to be broken down. The commute was hilly,often in 100 degree heat with the AC running and Id be stuck in traffic often. Having said all that,the car never let me down-never broke down. It had issues at time,but most of them were just performance issues,not necessarily drivability. I blame most of those performance issues on the nasty CA gas,ask Dano about that.
Dude, I don't know how I missed this post before but it's a good one. Thanks for the encouragement!
Todd
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2011 Edge (Wife's appliance) EVO IX MR, minor mods
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#4351046 - 12/17/09 08:47 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: danl]
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ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
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Yea, I'd feel better if I was making a lot of power but I'm really not. The compression test definitely pointed out the problem but I agree, it's akin to knowing the year you're going to die or something. Ah well, I had intended to "do something about" the low compression this spring (replace the MLS, water pump, re-ring cyl #3), it apparently just wanted to go out on it's own time table.
Todd
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#4358680 - 12/20/09 08:56 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: Euphoricuck]
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ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
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My friend came over tonight and about two and a half hours later I have a rotating assembly again - new and improved to move all the way to the top of the bore! It actually isn't bad at all, cleaning out the grooves on the pistons was far and away the shittiest part, the rest was really pretty simple. Plastigauge looked to be in the ballpark according to my friend and the ring gap was fine. All in all, no surprises, just learned to hate assembly lube when you're under a car and it's falling in your eyes. Thanks again for all the tips, Dan, they proved very helpful!
Next up is reattaching the pan/tcase/subframe and hopefully I'll have my head this week so I can get it tested and maybe, just maybe start reassembling it this weekend. I'll keep everyone posted for sure.
Todd
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2011 Edge (Wife's appliance) EVO IX MR, minor mods
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#4359504 - 12/21/09 06:49 AM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: ElectronVTEC2]
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danl
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 07/14/00
Posts: 12516
Loc: Maryland USA
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Glad it worked out, see its not that bad is it? Its just slightly harder than replacing a headgasket because you have to drop the oil pan as well. Did you reuse the old rings? I have been wanting to put together a spare motor with a set of stock pistons from a 1990 car. I was just going to spit shine them, lightly hone the cylinders, and put a bottom end together. Last motor I put together I reused the rings, but they were out of a "just rebuilt" motor that needed redone because the crankshaft was siezing up and sending metal through the motor. Great assembly, that crank is now junk. 
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#4359598 - 12/21/09 08:05 AM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: NOHC]
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ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
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Dan, I bought new "oem" rings from partsdinosaur.com. At least by the packaging, they look like stock rings. They were very sturdy and went in really easily so that made it nice. Everything rotates smoothly but I have to turn it over a few more times by hand to get the assembly lube everywhere it needs to be.
Mike, the 6 bolt bottom end is really pretty impressive. If I had more patience/time, I would have gone to a 2G piston/6 bolt rod combo. That combo in an otherwise-untouched 6 bolt block has seen 500+ whp and adds a little compression as well. If I had more money, I would have thrown in EVO IX internals to get a stock forged piston, 9.5:1 compression roughly, and plenty of power potential. But, I'm staying put on the 16G that I have so I don't really think I'll need to worry about 500 whp for the foreseeable future
Todd
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2011 Edge (Wife's appliance) EVO IX MR, minor mods
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#4359758 - 12/21/09 09:18 AM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: danl]
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ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
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Wow, glad I stayed with stockers, Dan. Thanks for the heads up! If this thing ever comes back apart it's getting a serious bottom end. I'm honestly hoping I don't have to do that though. Would rather be in a position where I can get a spare block and build it the right way (outside of the car).
Todd
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#4364361 - 12/22/09 11:36 AM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: danl]
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ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
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Makes sense to me. I need to find a 12 x 1.25 tap to chase my headstud holes but other than that I should have my parts by Wednesday to start putting this thing back together. It's a good thing since I can't find a damned Fit to pick up within a reasonable distance... I'm hoping to have it done by New Year's at this point.
Quick question - since I put in new rings, I had planned on buying a shit ton of dino-oil (10W-30?) to start the car and just using water in the radiator for the initial startup. Start it up, run it for 5 minutes, shut it down, drain the oil/water and refill with the same weight oil and actual coolant/water mix. Drive it for a tank of gas and flush the oil at least. I'm not sure what else I need to do for break-in but I understand I need to do copious amounts of engine breaking to seat them? I'm not planning on babying this thing for 1000 miles or something. It's going to get a kind treatment for the first tank of gas then it's going to be driven like normal (which is still pretty easy, just throw in a few WOT runs here and there).
Todd
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#4364517 - 12/22/09 12:41 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: ElectronVTEC2]
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NadFab
Newbie
Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 26
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Thats some pretty good carnage there. I've had valves stuck in the pistons before.
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#4364781 - 12/22/09 01:44 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: ElectronVTEC2]
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progressi
Post Master Sr
Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 9133
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Todd,I wish I could give you advice,but with Dan here it's pointless-all I can do is nod. lol
But I can tell you this. Beat this car,wrench on it til' you get it right. Make this an accomplishment and come out of it stronger. These are awesome cars but they can and have tested the resolve of good mechanics. They're just getting too old and have seen too much abuse-both intentional and otherwise.
When I was new with my DSM there were days I was sick of it,but they became fewer and far between. It was tough because I had a 60 mile daily commute to make with it and I could never afford to be broken down. The commute was hilly,often in 100 degree heat with the AC running and Id be stuck in traffic often. Having said all that,the car never let me down-never broke down. It had issues at time,but most of them were just performance issues,not necessarily drivability. I blame most of those performance issues on the nasty CA gas,ask Dano about that. Dude, I don't know how I missed this post before but it's a good one. Thanks for the encouragement! Todd 
Thanks dude,lol. Glad to see you back on the forums.
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#4365085 - 12/22/09 02:57 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: progressi]
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danl
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 07/14/00
Posts: 12516
Loc: Maryland USA
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I don't like chasing the threads unless you can't bottom out the stud by hand. That is all you need to do, is bottom out the stud. Clean out the crud as best you can with brake cleaner and a needle on the end of your compressed air gun to really get down there. The reason you don't want to chase it is that every time you chase it you remove some threads material and roughen up the nicely tapped threads a bit when dirt pushes the tap around as you are chasing it. I have a local machine shop that I get those taps from, if you must tap it do a starter tap, clean it out, then finish up with a bottoming tap.
I just run real cheap oil when firing the motor. Buy a gallon of whatever and run that for 50 miles or so. Then switch to whatever you are using. I try to fire it up and drive right away, loading down the motor. Doing a bunch of cold starts washes the oil off the cylinder walls, so try to warm the block as much as you can, fire it once, hopefully no major leaks, and drive it 20-50 miles. Then change oil and filter and beat on it. When doing the initial drive go up hills, coast in gear down hills, get 5-10psi boost, drive it like it gets driven normally.
The engine in my car I reused the rings, honed the cylinders, and was making passes at about the 200 mile mark. That is 120 break in and an 80 mile drive to the track.
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#4365291 - 12/22/09 04:02 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: danl]
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ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
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Sounds good Dan. I can bottom out the studs by hand so I will go ahead and brake cleaner + air gun them out as well as possible.
I understand the part about the cold starts on a new motor - I won't really have a way to warm the block but I will check for leaks prior to the initial start as best I can and just drive it like normal for 20-50 (a trip to work and back is typical and is 50 miles), then flush it, new filter, and drive it again.
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#4366123 - 12/22/09 08:34 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: danl]
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CommonGutterTrash
This user is more useless than a half-baked compost pile.
Post Master Sr
Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 6437
Loc: Boston MA
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dan's is fine, I'm sure, but I always do:
Fire up with water, and 10/30.. idle for 20-minutes.
change oil to 1030, and put 500 miles, low boost.
change oil to whatever you intend to use, and add coolant.
have at it!
(if there's a lot of machining done, I might change @ 100 miles, too.)
I've never chased head threads.
blast it out, and you should be fine. use the moly lube from the ARP's, not oil. and CERTAINLY not dry. wiggle them as you screw them down, so they fart out the air pockets, or it will feel like you're bottoming out.
Make sure you pull the MPI fuse when you prime the motor, or else you'll be spraying down the cylinders with gas. (some people just pull the plugs/transistor pack.)
and... lastly.
the best dsm motor I ever owned was a big-rod, 2g piston, BSEK bottom end, with a 2g head, and 1g cams.
my last big-rod 6-bolt was good, with the fp2's, but I really miss the "snappy" 1g/2g motor around town.
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Craig R. 2000 9-5 Gary Fisher Wagon 1995 850 T-5R 1996 Galant AIM = gclipse96
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#4366151 - 12/22/09 08:47 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: CommonGutterTrash]
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ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
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I bought ARP lube for the studs as I didn't want to torque down with motor oil. Thanks for the tips Craig - I'd have never done the "wiggle" thing on the stud install if you hadn't mentioned it. I should also point out, I was able to spin the studs out by hand, but had to "break them loose" so to say with a quick tug on an allen wrench. They came out pretty clean too so I don't think there's a ton of gunk clean out but I'll get what I can anyway.
Todd
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2011 Edge (Wife's appliance) EVO IX MR, minor mods
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#4369357 - 12/23/09 09:58 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: ElectronVTEC2]
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ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
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Got the oil pan installed - one fucking bolt just about ruined my night, but I persevered and got it in its place finally. Then came the transfer case - forgot how hard that thing is to get on when you don't have a lift, but it's on. Also put the water pump on, just copper-sprayed the pump-side of the gasket and torqued the bolts in a sequence similar to a car rim if that makes sense. I didn't torque-wrench it, just tightened them down tight enough that I wasn't giving it all I had. I'd guess 25-30 ft-lbs?
Found out the head and cams will be here on Tuesday so they will go straight to the machine shop for prep/cleaning/assembly. I hope to be installing all of that goodness next weekend. So, now it's just time to wait and enjoy the holidays. I think I'd rather be working on the car though...
Todd
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2011 Edge (Wife's appliance) EVO IX MR, minor mods
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#4369389 - 12/23/09 10:20 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: danl]
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ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
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Yea, it basically goes between the oil pump/crank gears and I made sure that's where I put it. Would have saved that one for last had it not been for the damn bolt right on top of the axle...
Forgot a funny "workin on the car" story though. So I was installing the water pump and had all five bolts on top of the shock tower with my little Stanley LED light resting on the motor mount bracket so I could see. I bumped the light and saw the bolts rolling around on the strut tower but didn't think anything of it. I get 4 of the bolts in and realize... shit, the smallest bolt fell off the shock tower and is god-knows-where. So, I start crawling around looking for it with my light and I can't find it anywhere. I'm looking under the car, on the subframe, in every nook and cranny I can think of and it's nowhere to be found. This goes on for at least forty-five minutes. I *hate* losing bolts because even if you have one to replace it, there's no telling where that sumbitch ended up. So I keep looking.
And looking...
And looking.
Then, I'm standing over the motor just thinking, FML, when I think - hey, I never heard anything hit the ground, so wherever it is, it must be somewhere where it wouldn't have made a sound when it landed. And then it dawns on me.
The bottom of my goddamn Stanley light is magnetic.
One guess where my lost bolt was? It traveled around the garage looking for itself for forty five minutes before it found itself.
That's how you waste forty five minutes of your life that you will never, ever get back.
Todd
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2011 Edge (Wife's appliance) EVO IX MR, minor mods
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#4371294 - 12/24/09 10:31 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: danl]
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theLoon
Post Master Sr
Registered: 01/06/03
Posts: 3275
Loc: MN
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Not sure which is worse, losing bolts or ending up with extra bolts when you're "finished".
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 I'm a badge whore
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#4371879 - 12/25/09 10:04 AM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: theLoon]
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ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
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Good point - we'll see how many extras we have after she's all back together. I'll put the over/under at 2.
Todd
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2011 Edge (Wife's appliance) EVO IX MR, minor mods
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#4388295 - 01/02/10 12:10 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: ElectronVTEC2]
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ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
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Just posting a little update - the used head I purchased ended up being no good. I was able to get my money back from the seller but that means I'm still in need of a head. I ended up going with a DSM Graveyard "Frankenstein" 6 bolt head which will have all new seals, valves, Supertech valve springs (good to about 8K RPM), and will bolt right up. Since I have to wait for that to get here around Wednesday of this week, I decided to replace my used ARP head studs with new, standard ARP's. This would have been the 4th torque cycle for my current studs and I took them up to 95 ft-lbs last time so I think I was getting close to stretching them. Figure it's worth $80 for some peace of mind that the new ones will definitely not be stretched and I'm going to only take them up to 85 ft-lbs as I think my previous sealing issues had more to do with using an MLS gasket instead of a composite. I also ordered up some new timing cover hardware as my old, now destroyed cover was missing some bolts. So, I had hoped to make some progress this weekend and had Lake Michigan decided to hold off on dumping over a foot of snow on us, I could have gone up and got the head today but it's pretty nasty on the roads around here so I'm just going to have it shipped.
I do have a question for anyone that's done a t-belt on a DSM though. I'm planning on using the timing tensioner tool (long rod that goes through the motor mount) to tension the auto-adjuster so I can pull the grenade pin out. With that said, how do I set/torque the bolt that secures the tensioner arm to the block? It's the part of the arm that goes around the mounting point and then a bolt and very large washer holds the arm in place. Is that bolt not supposed to tighten down though? It seems like it gets tight, but still spins? I'm guessing maybe it has to stay a tad loose to allow the arm to rotate to keep tension on the belt? Just want to make sure it's suppose to be that way before I go at this thing in earnest. I just noticed it the other day as I was bolting the auto-tensioner and tensioner arm to the block.
I'll post back when I actually get to do more work to the car
Todd
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2011 Edge (Wife's appliance) EVO IX MR, minor mods
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#4389105 - 01/02/10 06:42 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: danl]
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CommonGutterTrash
This user is more useless than a half-baked compost pile.
Post Master Sr
Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 6437
Loc: Boston MA
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I was always under the impression that the tensioner tool was just for un-doing the timing on a motor.
if the tensioner is "new", and compressed, you shouldn't need anything but the 2-pin tool, that goes into the pulley.
I forget the torque #, but like Dan said... just torque it down(the tensioner)
same with the arm. the only thing you have to wait to torque, is the pulley.
that number, I forget, too. I've done it enough that I can just give it a twist, and be "on". (plus, I have my own "secret" method of setting timing that you all would cringe from hearing)
I,too, have no idea what dan't talking about hitting the arm.
I think he means don't rest the tensioner *arm* on the hydrolic pin.
I'm sure you've seen it, but here's Vfaq
http://vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-1G.html
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Craig R. 2000 9-5 Gary Fisher Wagon 1995 850 T-5R 1996 Galant AIM = gclipse96
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#4390134 - 01/03/10 09:18 AM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: CommonGutterTrash]
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ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
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I was checking the VFAQ out yesterday and I like this method of setting tension, seems pretty darn easy:
Here is how I set the tension whether I am using a new tensioner or not:
* I do not use an Allen wrench on the tensioner as noted previously, I just let the tensioner expand all the way
* Once the belt is installed, I place a .150" drillbit (or the nearest larger size I have) on the top of the tensioner body, and screw in the tensioner tool until it captures the drillbit between the tensioner body and tensioner pulley bracket. When the bracket is close to the drillbit, I start spinning the drillbit, and stop screwing in the tool as soon as the bracket stops it from spinning. In other words, I stop when the pulley bracket is just snug against the bit.
* I place a flatblade screwdriver between the engine and tensioner pulley, and lightly pry up on the pulley
* I torque the pulley down
* I back off the tensioner tool several turns, and immediately check the tensioner gap - if it has gotten too small or too large right away, I redo the steps above, changing the pressure used on the screwdriver. If the gap looks OK, I spin the engine 6 turns and wait 15 minutes and check the gap again.
* There are other ways to do this, but this works best for me
Todd
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2011 Edge (Wife's appliance) EVO IX MR, minor mods
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