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#4907187 - 07/20/10 04:30 PM Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it?
bushidozin Offline
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Registered: 07/28/02
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I've been looking around at a lot of different cars lately, one of which is the Forester XT ('04+). The only problem is I can only seem to find them with autos anywhere remotely near me. Same thing with LGT's. I know people have said pairing the '02 WRX engines with the automatic transmission is terrible, and was wondering if it's any different with the XT?
Any input would be appreciated, and if anyone has any recommendations on places to look for manual xt's, that would be great!
Thanks guys!
Mike
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#4907304 - 07/20/10 05:12 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: bushidozin]
SamuraiSam Offline
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It's really bad.
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#4907410 - 07/20/10 06:10 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: SamuraiSam]
GB Offline
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Lol there was a thread in OT about this a while ago. It is 3x worse than even your average shithole slushbox. It is AWFUL.

I wouldn't even contemplate purchasing one.
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#4907413 - 07/20/10 06:11 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: GB]
GB Offline
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Look on enthusiast forums for manual FXT's or plan on swapping. Or don't get one. God they are so bad.
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#4907416 - 07/20/10 06:11 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: SamuraiSam]
UglyValiant Offline
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I've driven my aunt's XT w/ an auto. Not horrid at all for a daily driver....okay quick. Would give an estimation on performance, but I've only driven it at some 7000 ft above sea level in the summer...so seat of the pants was considerably diminished.

If looking for a mad-tyte racer, maybe not the best choice. For a DD, seems fine.
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#4907581 - 07/20/10 07:09 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: UglyValiant]
bushidozin Offline
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Posts: 761
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I wouldn't say mad-tyte...but at least moderately-tyte would be preferable!
I heard the auto was a bad match with their engine, but wanted to check. I'm looking for a daily driver I can haul the wife and kids around in, but that is at least entertaining to drive. However, it sounds like the auto is a bad idea, guess I'll keep on the lookout for a manual.
I'll probably still test drive an auto if I see one on a lot locally, just to try it out!
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#4907631 - 07/20/10 07:34 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: bushidozin]
GB Offline
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test drive it to try it out, but trust me, if you value the driving experience at all, you will NOT bring one home. They are bad. They are BARELY acceptable once you get a big(ger) turbo on there, but anything approaching stock and the time between pedal stab and any sort of real tangible reaction is LONNNNNNGGGGGG.
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#4907633 - 07/20/10 07:34 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: GB]
NOT spotch... Offline
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As bad as any car with an auto tranny?
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#4907769 - 07/20/10 08:52 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: NOT spotch...]
aerosaaber Offline
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my mother's non turbo forester is an auto tragic and it's actually tragic. Fucking terrible.
I was looking at an xt yesterday, saw the stupid auto gate and promptly returned to my vehicle and bailed.
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#4908445 - 07/21/10 08:17 AM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: NOT spotch...]
SEANSE-R Offline
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 Originally Posted By: spotch
As bad as any car with an auto tranny?
They should have used the 5spd auto from the LGT.

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#4909387 - 07/21/10 02:55 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: ]
ElectronVTEC2 Offline
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I think that was my thread a few months back - contemplating a '04 WRX with the auto tranny. That lasted about a day and I came to my senses.

Todd
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#4909808 - 07/21/10 06:32 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: SEANSE-R]
NOT spotch... Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SEANSE-R
 Originally Posted By: spotch
As bad as any car with an auto tranny?
They should have used the 5spd auto from the LGT.



Or bought a car with a real transmission ;\)

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#4912529 - 07/22/10 08:01 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: NOT spotch...]
Stock94si Offline
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 Originally Posted By: spotch
 Originally Posted By: SEANSE-R
 Originally Posted By: spotch
As bad as any car with an auto tranny?
They should have used the 5spd auto from the LGT.



Or bought a car with a real transmission ;\)


give it a rest..

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#4912707 - 07/22/10 09:47 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: NOT spotch...]
Chris92Sc2 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: spotch
 Originally Posted By: SEANSE-R
 Originally Posted By: spotch
As bad as any car with an auto tranny?
They should have used the 5spd auto from the LGT.



Or bought a car with a real transmission ;\)


My auto LGT went faster than any car or bike for that matter, that you've owned. LOL

The 4eat is pretty bad although they do make Valve Body and Tq Converter upgrades that supposedly work wonders for them. I'd just keep searching for a M/T though.
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#4912987 - 07/23/10 06:52 AM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: Chris92Sc2]
LNXGUY Offline
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It's worse then the VW O1M?
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#4913008 - 07/23/10 07:15 AM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: Chris92Sc2]
NOT spotch... Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Chris92Sc2
 Originally Posted By: spotch
 Originally Posted By: SEANSE-R
 Originally Posted By: spotch
As bad as any car with an auto tranny?
They should have used the 5spd auto from the LGT.



Or bought a car with a real transmission ;\)


My auto LGT went faster than any car or bike for that matter, that you've owned. LOL



You must've won madd cash at street warz yo!!!

Seriously, I can't even believe anyone actually considers that a justification for buying their 'fun' car with a totally uninvolving lump of a transmission.

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#4913105 - 07/23/10 08:23 AM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: NOT spotch...]
Stock94si Offline
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 Originally Posted By: spotch
 Originally Posted By: Chris92Sc2
 Originally Posted By: spotch
 Originally Posted By: SEANSE-R
 Originally Posted By: spotch
As bad as any car with an auto tranny?
They should have used the 5spd auto from the LGT.



Or bought a car with a real transmission ;\)


My auto LGT went faster than any car or bike for that matter, that you've owned. LOL



You must've won madd cash at street warz yo!!!

Seriously, I can't even believe anyone actually considers that a justification for buying their 'fun' car with a totally uninvolving lump of a transmission.


Pretty sure that was his dd or wife's dd. Funny that you're so quick to bring the hate on automatic transmissions not being fun yet you've probably never owned anything that's capable of getting out of the 15s

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#4913276 - 07/23/10 09:32 AM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: Stock94si]
bren si Offline
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I had an 2004 XT auto 4EAT. The 04' XT uses a full sti longblock which is great.

Once coupled with proper tuning taking advantage of the boost control, and drive by wire you can really get the car to shift alot better. I got 14.0@97 with a tune.

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#4913392 - 07/23/10 10:14 AM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: Stock94si]
Impulsive Offline
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I'm fine with the manual love, it's the auto hate that annoys me. Like manual transmissions, there are good and bad choices out there. Some guys can't live without a stick, some can.

That being said, seems like the new Mustang 6 speed is buttery and precise....so I would go that way.
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#4913460 - 07/23/10 10:36 AM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: Impulsive]
NOT spotch... Offline
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 Quote:
Pretty sure that was his dd or wife's dd. Funny that you're so quick to bring the hate on automatic transmissions not being fun yet you've probably never owned anything that's capable of getting out of the 15s


So it's ok to drive a soul-sucking slushbox as long as you do it every day? lol I guess if it's his wife's and she doesn't give a shit about driving, then yeah that's totally understandable (for some reason I thought it was mostly his, I guess I just assumed so with all the mawds).

And when did 14s start being the magic land where you can give up on being as much a part of the driving experience as possible.
"PHEW! I finally ticked off a 14.99! Now I can stop caring about driving altogether!"


For the record, my sv650 was a *smidge* faster than 15s, and even though I got bored as fuck with drag racing before I could run it with all the stupid shit I had done to it, everyone else with similar mods on their neons were running 14s. Word on the street is that a prelude + intake could squeeze by with a 14.9 too, but seriously, who gives a flying fuck? It's not like the faster I went, the less I wanted to row my own gears lol.


I understand there are people in this world whose driveway empties out onto the interstate and their work entrance has its own off ramp and they spend 23 hours a day sitting in stop-and-go traffic and drive nowhere else, and that sucks so the suckiness of constantly working a clutch pedal for 23 hours straight might override the joy of driving that car anywhere else.

I also understand that there are people that just don't give a fuck about actually driving and instead confuse their enjoyment of the whiz-bang of a powerful 'go' pedal with driving enthusiasm. If the go-pedal is plenty to entertain you and 300+hp by itself somehow equals driver involvement, then that's great for you. Super. That doesn't mean that I have to agree with that kind of nonsense and tell the OP that a forester XT with automatic transmission is a great idea.

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#4913490 - 07/23/10 10:49 AM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: NOT spotch...]
Chris92Sc2 Offline
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You didn't need to take my comments to heart. I was just fucking around. No it didn't have a DSG trans but it still didn't suck all the fun out of the car. It started out as my car with her in mind (can't drive a manual) and ended up being her car. I never had the intentions of going as far as I did with it because I had been there/done that with my previous cars. I wasn't really trying to use 1/4 times as a justification or benchmark for defending an auto trans, it really was just a "hey lighten up mag racer" type of comment. I only had my car to the 1/4 mile 5 times total. Yeah the trans shifted for me, but I had to push the button \:D
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#4913515 - 07/23/10 11:00 AM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: Stock94si]
Chris92Sc2 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Stock94si
 Originally Posted By: spotch
 Originally Posted By: SEANSE-R
 Originally Posted By: spotch
As bad as any car with an auto tranny?
They should have used the 5spd auto from the LGT.



Or bought a car with a real transmission ;\)


give it a rest..


DOes a Manual trans make a boring car into a fun one? A base model Mazda 3 can have a manual trans all it wants, but I'd rather buy an auto FXT make it quick. Why are you holding on to the manual trans argument so tightly? Its not like you do any kind of racing whatsoever. I just don't get it. I used to have that same mindset but I eventually grew up and realized it was pointless unless it was a project car or a real sports car. Thats the other realization, I won't have another project/DD. It just doesn't make sense. With advancements in auto trans getting better mileage, I don't see much of a need to have a m/t personally.
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#4913543 - 07/23/10 11:10 AM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: Chris92Sc2]
NOT spotch... Offline
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 Quote:
You didn't need to take my comments to heart. I was just fucking around. No it didn't have a DSG trans but it still didn't suck all the fun out of the car. It started out as my car with her in mind (can't drive a manual) and ended up being her car. I never had the intentions of going as far as I did with it because I had been there/done that with my previous cars. I wasn't really trying to use 1/4 times as a justification or benchmark for defending an auto trans, it really was just a "hey lighten up mag racer" type of comment. I only had my car to the 1/4 mile 5 times total. Yeah the trans shifted for me, but I had to push the button \:D



I know, I'm just not huge on getting all the driving pleasure you need from simply having a robust accelerator pedal. It honestly takes *no* appreciation of driving whatsoever to enjoy acceleration. People who *hate* driving, and who would literally be just as happy if they could magically appear at their destination and never have to set foot in a car still enjoy acceleration. Being able to enjoy a 'go' pedal is literally the most base form of automotive enthusiasm out there, because anything with a pulse (even if they don't enjoy driving!) enjoys the go pedal. For that reason, simply saying "more go" is enough to replace the involvement that comes from a real transmission confuses me and even bothers me a little, because I honestly see that as being what's wrong with the drivers in this country. It's the reason we all drive autos and it's the reason that we get skipped on a surprising number of decent cars even though we were THE biggest automotive market on the planet. Auto companies know that the vast majority of people who 'enjoy driving' in America are simply adult versions of children who can be transfixed by dangling keys for hours, with no need to appreciate anything else about the experience. It's the same reason GM, Ford, and Chrysler got away for so long with building utterly attrocious cars. Because they knew they could, and we'd keep lapping them up. Mustang's got a chassis dating back to the Paleolithic Age? NO PROBLEM! We just gave it 20 more hp! That thing is good to go for 5 more years!


So for me, the argument that "it's faster than a stick" or "it gets better gas mileage than a stick" or whatever totally misses the point. If you buy it for someone who doesn't drive stick or doesn't care about driving, cool. But if you're choosing a transmission just based on some utilitarian aspect then I feel like you're entirely missing the point in the first place.

Sorry to go off about it, but I really do feel pretty damn strongly about this shit lol.
(and that's not mag racing! :p )

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#4913558 - 07/23/10 11:15 AM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: Chris92Sc2]
NOT spotch... Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Chris92Sc2
Why are you holding on to the manual trans argument so tightly?


Because every time I drive a car without an mtx I fucking hate it. Way, way too uninvolving. And +50hp may make it faster, but it's no more involving whatsoever. I don't confuse big hp with driver involvement. They're not the same thing.

It's not like I chose my 3 because I was looking for a sports car, or because it was the sportiest thing I could find for 16~ grand. I was just looking for a cheap reliable DD that counted towards cash for clunkers. But I did choose an mtx because I literally get bored to death in cars with automatic transmissions, especially in the land where curves fail to exist (central ohio). Nothing like a bunch of straight roads and an atx to cure any kind of insomnia problems you may be having lol.


 Quote:
Its not like you do any kind of racing whatsoever. I just don't get it. I used to have that same mindset but I eventually grew up and realized it was pointless unless it was a project car or a real sports car.....It just doesn't make sense. With advancements in auto trans getting better mileage, I don't see much of a need to have a m/t personally.


Read my last post. People like you depress me lol \:\( I mean, good for you I guess, but still very sad that driving a manual transmission is entirely utilitarian for you. \:\(

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#4913574 - 07/23/10 11:23 AM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: NOT spotch...]
Chris92Sc2 Offline
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I see your point, but you have blinders on to the point of coming off as arrogant and ignorant. You do realize that there are plenty awesome of cars that your willing to just write off just because it has an auto... That to me is sad. Agree to disagree I suppose. I'm not the one screaming M/Ts suck from a mountain top. I do appreciate a manual trans, but for the correct situation. Which, for me has a different criteria than yours. Its just the fact that you can straight faced say someone is wrong for their opinion that is annoying. Especially since you've never owned or built a car that was somewhat interesting. How the hell did you get so hard headed about it?
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#4913594 - 07/23/10 11:32 AM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: NOT spotch...]
Serendipitous Offline
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A lot of the hate comes from the disappearance of available manuals in this country, so those of us who like them/can't drive a car without one are seeing our options dwindle. I mean you can't even get VW's sportiest model with a stick anymore, that's a bad sign.
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#4913637 - 07/23/10 11:42 AM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: Serendipitous]
NOT spotch... Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Serendipitous
A lot of the hate comes from the disappearance of available manuals in this country, so those of us who like them/can't drive a car without one are seeing our options dwindle. I mean you can't even get VW's sportiest model with a stick anymore, that's a bad sign.



Not to mention the almost total disappearance of MTX's from BMW's lineup (INCLUDING the M models!). Sure it's a possibility for most, but good luck actually finding one.

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#4913668 - 07/23/10 11:58 AM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: Chris92Sc2]
NOT spotch... Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Chris92Sc2
I see your point, but you have blinders on to the point of coming off as arrogant and ignorant. You do realize that there are plenty awesome of cars that your willing to just write off just because it has an auto...


Yeah, that's me. I will absolutely write a car off for being an automatic. When I was shopping I kinda wanted a civic but there were 0 in the state of Ohio, and only one slotted to possibly show up in the coming months... maybe. No one knew where it would end up though. So Honda was out, simple as that. I had been dd'ing an auto for almost 2 years at that point, and it was fucking killing me. It didn't even feel like driving... it was like diet driving or something. Half the calories, none of the flavor.

 Quote:
Agree to disagree I suppose.


Indeed

 Quote:
I'm not the one screaming M/Ts suck from a mountain top.


Yeah, but that's because they don't. \:\) Might as well shout "Getting blowjobs from hot chicks sucks!!!" while you're up there! ;\) Granted autos have their place, but I think you would really struggle to find anyone in the history of motoring (whose opinion matters, at least) that actually thinks an automatic transmission offers a better overall driving experience than a stick shift. (Even if autos may have pro's in some drag racing applications and in totally shitty traffic which is usually much more idling or stopping than actually driving).


 Quote:
I do appreciate a manual trans, but for the correct situation. Which, for me has a different criteria than yours.


yeah, agree to disagree for sure on that one.

 Quote:
Its just the fact that you can straight faced say someone is wrong for their opinion that is annoying.



 Quote:
Especially since you've never owned or built a car that was somewhat interesting.


Ahh, but see, you think automatic transmissions are (or can be) interesting! This goes back to us needing to 'agree to disagree'.

And for the record, you're doing here exactly what you complained about me doing one quote above (casting judgment on my automotive choices the same way that I cast judgment on your transmission choice).

 Quote:
How the hell did you get so hard headed about it?


Because dude, I hate driving cars with automatic transmissions. I've done it, and hated it every time I got in the car. When something I loved doing (driving around almost anywhere) becomes an uninvolved chore, that tends to give me a strongly unfavorable opinion about it.

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#4913787 - 07/23/10 12:52 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: Chris92Sc2]
Impulsive Offline
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 Quote:
But I did choose an mtx because I literally get bored to death in cars with automatic transmissions, especially in the land where curves fail to exist (central ohio). Nothing like a bunch of straight roads and an atx to cure any kind of insomnia problems you may be having lol.


I'd actually prefer a manual in a place with curves or highway driving. Stop and go, lots of red lights is when I don't like manuals. Clutch in, clutch out, break, downshift, clutch in etc. I also have a lot of turns in the first couple minutes of my commute where I need to be fairly aggressive. Many manual trans do not shift well in the cold, so it's a bit of a pain to make that left turn across 3-4 lanes of traffic (winter issue).

I'd also take a 13 second car with grip and an auto trans than a 15 second car that is nimble with a stick. I do still want an auto with control to hold gears, downshift etc.
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#4913873 - 07/23/10 01:32 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: Impulsive]
Chris92Sc2 Offline
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Spotch, I totally see your point but You've never mentioned driving a car thats mildly capable of getting out of its own way with an auto. I love manual transmissions as much as the next guy, but I don't see buying a car with an auto a complete failure. I just don't understand how anyone can say there isn't a time or place and call all vehicles with them a waste.
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#4913892 - 07/23/10 01:41 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: Chris92Sc2]
NOT spotch... Offline
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 Quote:
Spotch, I totally see your point but You've never mentioned driving a car thats mildly capable of getting out of its own way with an auto.


I promise it has nothing to do with me driving cars that are too slow. I just don't feel enough a part of the drive if I'm sitting there working two pedal and a steering wheel. It might be fun to cruise around like that sometimes, but most of the time it's not for me.


 Quote:
I just don't understand how anyone can say there isn't a time or place and call all vehicles with them a waste.


I think there's a place for automatics... people who don't care about driving (let's face it, automatics are *perfect* for the vast majority of the population), if you literally live in traffic multiple hours a day, and if you like drag racing so much and it matters that much to you to save a few tenths or so, or if you have an SO that can't drive stick and she's gotta be able to drive your car (though the last time that happened to me I taught her how to lol). I don't really fit any of those, so I'm fine with my manual.
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#4913918 - 07/23/10 01:51 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: NOT spotch...]
Chris92Sc2 Offline
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Not that it makes a difference but the Legacy has the "sport shift" trans so 99% of the time I was in control of what gear I was in. Honestly, that made me regret not just buying an EVO/STI. LOL
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#4913939 - 07/23/10 01:56 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: Chris92Sc2]
NOT spotch... Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Chris92Sc2
Not that it makes a difference but the Legacy has the "sport shift" trans so 99% of the time I was in control of what gear I was in. Honestly, that made me regret not just buying an EVO/STI. LOL



Yeah, my wife's fit has that. When we first bought it I thought "awesome!" and then I used it lol. It's way better than the first flappy autos I tried years ago, but it just feels wrong. \:\(

When I was shopping for cars I drove one of the newer fits with the mtx and even though it didn't feel any faster, it was way more fun. For me at least lol.

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#4914252 - 07/23/10 03:39 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: Impulsive]
Stock94si Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Impulsive
I'm fine with the manual love, it's the auto hate that annoys me.

Yep, quite tiresome.. GTR? sucks.. LFA? sucks.. 599? sucks..
Go have fun in a Peterbilt if a clutch pedal is the deciding factor. double-clutchin 18 gears yo!

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#4914607 - 07/23/10 05:42 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: Stock94si]
Impulsive Offline
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Loc: Edmonton
 Originally Posted By: Stock94si

Yep, quite tiresome.. GTR? sucks.. LFA? sucks.. 599? sucks..


Might as well get a bus pass.
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#4914829 - 07/23/10 07:34 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: Stock94si]
NOT spotch... Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Stock94si
 Originally Posted By: Impulsive
I'm fine with the manual love, it's the auto hate that annoys me.

Yep, quite tiresome.. GTR? sucks.. LFA? sucks.. 599? sucks..
Go have fun in a Peterbilt if a clutch pedal is the deciding factor. double-clutchin 18 gears yo!



Ever notice how people like me only *really* started bitching about the cars where an mtx isn't even an option? If Ferrari or BMW or VW or Nissan *insert car company here* want to make a car with an automatic or a DSG, that's great. I drove a prelude automatic once, and if anything will make you hate an auto for ruining a car, it would be a prelude. Did you see me railing about those ad nauseum? No, because Honda doesn't force you into one.

*THATS* what's annoying about this shit. The decreasing amount of options that are being offered to consumers. Not that a car comes in auto/DSG, but that they ONLY come with that transmission. Hell, the whole point of this thread (FXT) doesn't even come with a stick shift. Fucking weak.

It was bad enough when automatics were pushing manual transmissions off the map, now DSG is putting the final nails in the coffin. So pardon me if I'm a little disappointed that my favorite transmission option is disappearing as car companies increasingly cater only to the lazies and the "as long as it's fast, who cares what transmission it has?!" crowd.

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#4915148 - 07/23/10 10:49 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: Chris92Sc2]
fellfrosch7 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Chris92Sc2
Spotch, I totally see your point but You've never mentioned driving a car thats mildly capable of getting out of its own way with an auto.

I think this is the key here. In a "slow" 15-16 second car, a manual vs automatic is a huge difference in driver involvement and fun factor, cause you can beat the shit out of the econobox and wait 3-4 seconds between shifts. Once you get into faster cars, driving them closer to 10/10ths takes more skill, and the difference is more negligible because either way, it's more exhilarating to drive a 12 second car than a 16 second one.

I don't know if I'm getting my point across here so I'll probably get buried. My argument for manual cars is that when I was a freshman in college, I got bent over to the tune of ~$1600 to fix a busted auto trans in my Dodge Intrepid. I swore them off since then if I can avoid it. Case in point, my Maxima has been driving around with a busted bearing and about 2/3rd of its fluid gone - but it still drives and shifts fine, although with a bit of noise. Autos are an all or nothing affair in most cases.

On a related note... http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/21/car-and-driver-launches-save-the-manuals-campaign-w-vide/
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#4915177 - 07/23/10 11:13 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: NOT spotch...]
Impulsive Offline
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That doesn't bother me, it's the whole "OMG, you don't row gears in your DD, so you're a pussy" talk. Like I didn't drive manuals for 10 years. It depends on what you buy and which option is better. I've driven enough shitty manuals to appreciate a good auto and I'll go manual on my next car likely, but I don't just blindly check the manual box. Shitty shifters and clunky transmissions ruin the experience more than they help it. I've said it 100 times that it's the new millennium and car makers still can't make a nice smooth manual transmission (with a few exceptions)?
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#4915178 - 07/23/10 11:16 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: fellfrosch7]
NOT spotch... Offline
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 Quote:
I think this is the key here. In a "slow" 15-16 second car, a manual vs automatic is a huge difference in driver involvement and fun factor, cause you can beat the shit out of the econobox and wait 3-4 seconds between shifts. Once you get into faster cars, driving them closer to 10/10ths takes more skill, and the difference is more negligible because either way, it's more exhilarating to drive a 12 second car than a 16 second one.


I definitely see what you're saying.

Here's the thing though... Of the 8000 miles I've put on the 3 so far, very *very* few of them are at 10/10ths. Even when I'm grannying it around town and not asking anything of my vehicle, driving an automatic drives me nuts. It's the reason I *always* go for the keys to the 3, even when it involves playing 'musical cars' in the street to get Fit out of the way, and even when I'm taking a little trip where the short wheelbase and lighter weight of the Fit *should* make it the more enjoyable car but can't because it's got that damn atx.

If I was in a racing environment I think you're right. At 10/10ths in a fast car and a competitive environment, you're so wrapped up in just going faster that you're pretty damn involved in the process either way. I think I would still miss the mtx, but maybe not as much?

But for every other time I'm in a car, going 0-60 in 8-15 seconds like the rest of traffic is, going anywhere from 2 to 8 tenths on public roads, I just prefer the involvement of shifting my own gears. Letting something else do it for me makes me feel disconnected from the process of driving, more like a spectator and less like the doer. I feel like I"m missing out on fun. You know? I enjoy the extra control of the mtx, but I enjoy going through the motions too. I just like it. So even when I'm running to the store or on some other random trip where I'm in no rush and I'll never get above 4000rpm, I feel like something's missing if I'm not in an mtx. It's just not the same. For me the boredom isn't a byproduct of driving a slow car and having an atx make it even slower, it's a byproduct of not being as involved in the driving process as I enjoy being.


Cool link, too.

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#4915186 - 07/23/10 11:20 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: Impulsive]
NOT spotch... Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Impulsive
That doesn't bother me, it's the whole "OMG, you don't row gears in your DD, so you're a pussy" talk.


Please. Like you're not a pussy.
;\)


 Quote:
Like I didn't drive manuals for 10 years. It depends on what you buy and which option is better. I've driven enough shitty manuals to appreciate a good auto and I'll go manual on my next car likely, but I don't just blindly check the manual box. Shitty shifters and clunky transmissions ruin the experience more than they help it. I've said it 100 times that it's the new millennium and car makers still can't make a nice smooth manual transmission (with a few exceptions)?


yeah, you have had some shit luck with transmissions. I mean hell, my neon transmission was decent and the whole transmission probably only cost about 50 cents total lol dodge. Come to think of it, even the shifter on my old free 1985 mazda 626 that fell through the floor and had to be ghetto-fastened to the floorpan shifted o.k. I mean it had a shit ton of play (I did the rigging, so that explains some of it lol) but it never snagged or hung going into gear or anything. And that fucker had well over 200k of unmaintained miles on it!

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#4915189 - 07/23/10 11:21 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: fellfrosch7]
theLoon Offline
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Yeah, I think it's definately a "there's a time and a place" thing for autos. I've owned two cars with auto trannys. The first was a '62 Mercedes 220SE, and an auto made perfect sense in that car--a big 4-door sedan, loafer inline-5, lots of metal and chrome and soft springs. The other is my GN, where again the auto makes perfect sense. While you can sometimes coax it around corners, it really prefers to do its thing in a straight line, and holding on to the steering wheel with both hands is reasonably prudent.

All my other cars have been manuals, and they've either been much lighter than the Merc, or much slower than the GN. The one memorable car where I can honestly compare manual vs. auto was my '97 Maxima. Manual tranny=fun-yet-practical. Auto tranny=what the fuck is this shit?
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#4915209 - 07/23/10 11:28 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: NOT spotch...]
Impulsive Offline
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 Originally Posted By: spotch

yeah, you have had some shit luck with transmissions.


I don't know if I'd call it luck other than my Mustang. I admit, I was not driving Miata's, but still, I'd expect a bit more. i drove a Dodge Dakota Manual and a 2500 Hemi truck and a Dodge Cummins and while the shifter sucked, I could operated that thing with my pinky.

Isuzu Impulse RS, best shifting manual I've owned. But missed second one time (locked me out) and second was never the same.

Mustang - The T5 shifted like ass from day one. A rebuild, Pro5.0, 6 types of fluid, new quadrant+cable...still shifted like ass and pedal effort was huge.

Spec V - ass. Fluid times 5, no luck.

RSX I drove was alright, but crunched second everytime.

SRT-4 - wasn't too bad. Upshifting was good, powershifting was easy, Mopar shifter worked well and was cheap, but downshifting and cold sucked ass.

FXT - actually pretty good with bushings and a short shifter. But again, bad downshifting, poor bad weather operation and when I replaced the clutch, the shop fucked it (lots of chatter/lock out).

Nothing like pulling out for a left turn, hitting the gas, going for second and the car doesn't want to go in gear while traffic is bearing down on you.
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#4915396 - 07/24/10 02:55 AM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: Impulsive]
Serendipitous Offline
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Impulsive, you buy cars with terrible transmissions. If you want to appreciate a good stick, you are going to need to live with a complete lack of torque. It's the only way.
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#4915423 - 07/24/10 06:49 AM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: fellfrosch7]
Chris92Sc2 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: fellfrosch7
 Originally Posted By: Chris92Sc2
Spotch, I totally see your point but You've never mentioned driving a car thats mildly capable of getting out of its own way with an auto.

I think this is the key here. In a "slow" 15-16 second car, a manual vs automatic is a huge difference in driver involvement and fun factor, cause you can beat the shit out of the econobox and wait 3-4 seconds between shifts. Once you get into faster cars, driving them closer to 10/10ths takes more skill, and the difference is more negligible because either way, it's more exhilarating to drive a 12 second car than a 16 second one.

I don't know if I'm getting my point across here so I'll probably get buried. My argument for manual cars is that when I was a freshman in college, I got bent over to the tune of ~$1600 to fix a busted auto trans in my Dodge Intrepid. I swore them off since then if I can avoid it. Case in point, my Maxima has been driving around with a busted bearing and about 2/3rd of its fluid gone - but it still drives and shifts fine, although with a bit of noise. Autos are an all or nothing affair in most cases.

On a related note... http://www.autoblog.com/2010/07/21/car-and-driver-launches-save-the-manuals-campaign-w-vide/

That pretty much exactly what my point is. My LGT went 11.8 with an auto and was fun as shit to drive daily. Surprise the hell out of ricers evertime they rolled up. I've also owned numerous 15-16 second cars (2 80's gti's, a 97 gti, 91 318is) that have all been M/T and it made for an awesome daily drive but I wouldn't consider them anywhere near as fun of an everyday drive.
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#4915610 - 07/24/10 11:13 AM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: NOT spotch...]
Euphoricuck Offline
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 Originally Posted By: spotch
and instead confuse their enjoyment of the whiz-bang of a powerful 'go' pedal with driving enthusiasm. If the go-pedal is plenty to entertain you and 300+hp by itself somehow equals driver involvement, then that's great for you. Super.
win.

lol
so was that suped up turbo auto your wifes or yours Chris?

traffic is a sorry excuse for getting a yawn fest auto.
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#4915612 - 07/24/10 11:18 AM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: NOT spotch...]
Euphoricuck Offline
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 Quote:
I think this is the key here. In a "slow" 15-16 second car, a manual vs automatic is a huge difference in driver involvement and fun factor, cause you can beat the shit out of the econobox and wait 3-4 seconds between shifts. Once you get into faster cars, driving them closer to 10/10ths takes more skill, and the difference is more negligible because either way, it's more exhilarating to drive a 12 second car than a 16 second one.


lol wat
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#4915920 - 07/24/10 03:00 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: Chris92Sc2]
scootergeek Offline
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Autos are great in a truck or RV.

They just encourage multi-tasking and by extension lousy driving, otherwise.

cheers,
scott
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#4916267 - 07/24/10 06:26 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: Euphoricuck]
Chris92Sc2 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Euphoric
 Originally Posted By: spotch
and instead confuse their enjoyment of the whiz-bang of a powerful 'go' pedal with driving enthusiasm. If the go-pedal is plenty to entertain you and 300+hp by itself somehow equals driver involvement, then that's great for you. Super.
win.

lol
so was that suped up turbo auto your wifes or yours Chris?

traffic is a sorry excuse for getting a yawn fest auto.


Reading comprehension troubles?
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#4916448 - 07/24/10 08:24 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: Chris92Sc2]
Euphoricuck Offline
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explain
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#4917153 - 07/25/10 01:35 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: Euphoricuck]
Chris92Sc2 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Euphoric
explain

I did. Read the thread jackass. \:D
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#4917158 - 07/25/10 01:38 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: Euphoricuck]
skierd Offline
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Driving is boring. My next four wheeled DD-type vehicle will likely be an automatic. The car/truck/van/suv that I eventually get will be for shitty weather and hauling the bike places I don't want to ride to (or ride back from). If I need driving pleasure I'll take the bike.
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#4917164 - 07/25/10 01:45 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: skierd]
scootergeek Offline
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 Originally Posted By: skierd
Driving is boring.


You're doing it wrong.

cheers,
scott
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#4917177 - 07/25/10 02:10 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: scootergeek]
NOT spotch... Offline
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Registered: 07/25/00
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 Originally Posted By: scootergeek
 Originally Posted By: skierd
Driving is boring.


You're doing it wrong.

cheers,
scott



Yeah... I gotta say, as much as I liked riding my SV and my scooters, they absolutely do not replace the joy of driving a car. It's a totally different pleasure. Same way that bj's can't replace intercourse (or vice versa).

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#4917190 - 07/25/10 02:23 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: NOT spotch...]
skierd Offline
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For the most part, it did for me. 99/100, I'd rather ride. Racing would be a different story, but give me a long twisty stretch of public pavement and I'd rather be on two than four. Hell even traffic isn't bad, so long as its not 95+ out, as I can usually actually see and maneuver better in it now. And I loved my miata's, karts, etc.

Oh, and on topic, I absolutely hated how all of the subaru auto's drove, turbos being worse than the n/a cars because of lag.
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#4917220 - 07/25/10 02:53 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: skierd]
Chris92Sc2 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: skierd

Oh, and on topic, I absolutely hated how all of the subaru auto's drove, turbos being worse than the n/a cars because of lag.

In stock form they are fucking terrible. Luckily easily fixable if you don't mind flashing the ecu.
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#4917255 - 07/25/10 03:25 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: Chris92Sc2]
bushidozin Offline
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Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 761
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How much does a flash change the behavior of the car?
And I would absolutely prefer a manual, but just trying to find something halfway fun that I can carry two kids in under 10k is starting to drive me nuts. I've nearly given up on finding something very "sporty" or fast that suits me, so at least being able to row through the gears could make me feel like it's a bit sportier.
And if anyone has any other recommendations, I am more than open at this point.
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#4917275 - 07/25/10 03:40 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: bushidozin]
GB Offline
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A flash will make a pretty large difference, but IMO it still cant fix the failure of the 4spd auto that the Forester comes with. Legacy GT's with the 5spd auto are MUCH better.

I really hated the forester 4spd.

This is gonna sound silly, but you should consider a Volvo V70 T5.

They are FWD, but turbo, and a lot came with manuals. They look cool IMO, and they sound great with breathing mods. The motor is stout and reliable as well \:\)
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#4917279 - 07/25/10 03:43 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: bushidozin]
Chris92Sc2 Offline
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If its done right it wakes the car up alot. Its easy to gut the cats and put solid tune on it. It would be pretty quick for what it is, but it won't be a sporty driver.
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#4917281 - 07/25/10 03:45 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: GB]
GB Offline
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They're easy to find non-beaten, they will run forever, have comfy comfy interiors, all the creature comforts, and they are CHEAAAAP on insurance.

I'd suggest an R but the earlier awd systems were shitty and they were auto only. \:\(
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#4917316 - 07/25/10 04:12 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: GB]
NOT spotch... Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Gb
A flash will make a pretty large difference, but IMO it still cant fix the failure of the 4spd auto that the Forester comes with. Legacy GT's with the 5spd auto are MUCH better.

I really hated the forester 4spd.

This is gonna sound silly, but you should consider a Volvo V70 T5.

They are FWD, but turbo, and a lot came with manuals. They look cool IMO, and they sound great with breathing mods. The motor is stout and reliable as well \:\)



This


Also, we've been looking at volvo wagons and foresters on and off for a few months and it seems like the volvos are slightly bigger in the back. At least they would fit our two dogs and two passengers *slightly* better than the forester would.

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#4917334 - 07/25/10 04:24 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: NOT spotch...]
Chris92Sc2 Offline
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And lower to the ground out back making it easier for the dogs to get in. I love Volvo wagons.
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#4917357 - 07/25/10 04:46 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: Chris92Sc2]
GB Offline
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Ive had mine for 3 years, 35k miles. All its needed is oil, gas, brakes, and a front right strut mount.

Pros: So comfy, so practical, love the way the I5 sounds, it couldn't be MORE under the policia's radar, cheap insurance, great stock stereo, awesome dual zone climate control, great heated seats, QUIET INSIDE, and the fucker gets right up and out of its own way on the highway.

Cons: Awful on gas (20mpg mixed0, some replacement parts are quite expensive, the awd is picky, the auto isn't the best (but its not NEARLY the worst).


Car has been good to me. It's a 1998 V70 AWD. 2.4L Turbo. Had 51k miles on it when I bought it, I paid 8500.

It currently needs new struts, and they are REALLY expensive.

Unfortunately the early turbo awd volvos have really stupid self leveling nivomat suspension. 450 bucks for a pair of rear struts. and thats dealer COST.

The fwd's are easy and cheap just like any other car.

I've got a couple mods on mine, an intake, ipd grille, yellow fogs, 5k hids, 15% tints all around, uk market clear corners, and some speakers.




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#4917380 - 07/25/10 05:09 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: GB]
scootergeek Offline
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God damn but I love Volvo wagons.

just saying,
scott
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#4917419 - 07/25/10 05:41 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: scootergeek]
GB Offline
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 Originally Posted By: scootergeek
God damn but I love Volvo wagons.

just saying,
scott


So do I. IMHO they really need a couple mods to get rid of the granpa attractant though. The stock chrome grille is awful, and the fishbowl look is out.
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#4917548 - 07/25/10 07:19 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: GB]
NOT spotch... Offline
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Registered: 07/25/00
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Every automaker on the planet needs to look very closely at this picture:




And realize that *THAT* is what a trunk should be like on a hatchback/wagon/suv.

Do you guys realize that the vast majority (all?) of small SUV's I've seen don't have this much trunk space? Same thing with newer wagons (outback, accord crosstour, etc). It's like cars are getting bigger and heavier, and yet they're getting smaller and smaller on the inside. It's fucking insane.
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#4917691 - 07/25/10 08:41 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: NOT spotch...]
danl Offline
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Shut the fuck up, all of you.
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#4917707 - 07/25/10 08:51 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: danl]
NOT spotch... Offline
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Registered: 07/25/00
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 Originally Posted By: danl
Shut the fuck up, all of you.


YOU FIRST

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#4918177 - 07/26/10 07:24 AM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: NOT spotch...]
bushidozin Offline
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Registered: 07/28/02
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That was actually one of the other cars I started out looking at! I read quite a few reviews about expensive repairs, and a few about questionable reliability and was unsure about them. Sounds like I might need to start looking again! Any particular years/generations to seek or avoid?
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#4918232 - 07/26/10 08:08 AM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: bushidozin]
GB Offline
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I'd stay away from the early AWDs (the v70 started in 98, and the first generation went until 01) but otherwise they should be fine. Volvo has been making the 2.3 and 2.4L turbo for a long long time. Ive done all my own work on the car and it's been fine.

And yeah some parts will be expensive, I spent $150 on front rotors recently direct from volvo, but the nice parts are that the new rotors come with brand new caliper mounting bolts already pre-anti-siezed, and you get new rotor pins and everything else.

They are a good solid car \:\)
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#4918250 - 07/26/10 08:17 AM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: NOT spotch...]
FCobra94 Offline
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Registered: 10/22/01
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 Originally Posted By: spotch
And realize that *THAT* is what a trunk should be like on a hatchback/wagon/suv.

Do you guys realize that the vast majority (all?) of small SUV's I've seen don't have this much trunk space? Same thing with newer wagons (outback, accord crosstour, etc). It's like cars are getting bigger and heavier, and yet they're getting smaller and smaller on the inside. It's fucking insane.

I felt the same way about the new FX35. I really wanted to like it, but for such a huge vehicle outside, it has less space than my Civic does on the inside \:\(
_________________________
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#4918269 - 07/26/10 08:24 AM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: FCobra94]
NOT spotch... Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 57149
 Originally Posted By: FCobra94
 Originally Posted By: spotch
And realize that *THAT* is what a trunk should be like on a hatchback/wagon/suv.

Do you guys realize that the vast majority (all?) of small SUV's I've seen don't have this much trunk space? Same thing with newer wagons (outback, accord crosstour, etc). It's like cars are getting bigger and heavier, and yet they're getting smaller and smaller on the inside. It's fucking insane.

I felt the same way about the new FX35. I really wanted to like it, but for such a huge vehicle outside, it has less space than my Civic does on the inside \:\(



yeah fuck this shit. Every time I see a 20-30 year old Gm wagon falling apart in a parking lot I just get all hulk-ragey because its got so much fucking room in the back. You'd have to buy a fucking excursion to match that shit.

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#4918369 - 07/26/10 09:09 AM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: ]
NOT spotch... Offline
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Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 57149
 Originally Posted By: PatB18C
A buddy of mine at work came up to tell me about his new vehicle purchase the other day.

He traded his Civic Hybrid for a Diesel Excursion.



bwhaahahahaha. Wow... I guess he figured he was frugal enough that he earned a little consumption. At least he got the diesel lol 'miserly'.

Any good reason for the switch? We're about to spend 20~ hours in the car in a few weeks and I'd be happy to drive an excursion (or odyssey... *rubs chin*) or something super large on that trip. I would just end myself if I had to drive the excursion anywhere else lol.

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#4918534 - 07/26/10 10:14 AM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: ]
NOT spotch... Offline
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Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 57149
 Originally Posted By: PatB18C
I think the main reason is that the Civic Hybrid was an insult to his masculinity.

I haven't confirmed that there is compensation in the form of the diesel excursion, but I'd not be surprised to find that something comes up short.


Frankly, I expected a little more from you.
\:\(

\:D


Not everyone can handle the ecocar thing, that's for sure. Although it's getting easier, now that gas prices are so high. I had a pretty country-acting (like straight-acting but with boots on lol) guy come up to me in the middle of nowhere in Tennessee about a year ago and ask me about the Fit. I was waiting for the "sissy car", but he was genuinely interested in te fuel economy b/c his truck's gas mileage was killing him. I'm sure he never bought one, but it's a step in the right direction lol.

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#4918700 - 07/26/10 10:55 AM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: ]
NOT spotch... Offline
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Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 57149
 Originally Posted By: PatB18C
 Originally Posted By: spotch
Frankly, I expected a little more from you.
\:\(

\:D


Dude, he's like my age... waaaaay too young for me.



LOL! Touche.

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#4919148 - 07/26/10 01:16 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: NOT spotch...]
ElectronVTEC2 Offline
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Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
Hehe, I had the same exact interaction with a country-boy here in Northern Indiana. He was driving a Ford Ranger and said his "mpg's were killing him" and asked about the Fit. Wish I could find that guy again because I've got one he can buy \:\)

Todd
_________________________
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#9173939 - 10/31/17 03:24 AM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: Impulsive]
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#9189933 - 11/17/17 08:52 AM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: ]
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#9214662 - 12/20/17 08:39 PM Re: Forester XT w/ auto tranny, how bad is it? [Re: Impulsive]
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