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#5793354 - 09/09/11 05:32 PM 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5
Kick to ze liver Offline
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j0s-RGzyvE

Both cars were tuned by Chris @ Xenocron, props!
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#5793544 - 09/09/11 07:25 PM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: Kick to ze liver]
Stock94si Offline
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That rsx always seems like it's faster than it should be.. what's it trap?
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#5793561 - 09/09/11 07:37 PM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: Stock94si]
Euphoricuck Offline
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125 on the forums. 102 in real life.

but really...the maths say an eg with that set up should pull the rsx...imo
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#5793567 - 09/09/11 07:41 PM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: Euphoricuck]
Quad4_driver Offline
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Didnt know B18c5s could do 200+ whp with bolt ons.Impressive.
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#5793733 - 09/09/11 09:03 PM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: Quad4_driver]
cliff st-clair Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Quad4_driver
Didnt know B18c5s could do 200+ whp with bolt ons.Impressive.


that is not very realistic, probably a high reading dyno. They dyno like 162-165 bone stock. To make 200whp you'd think it would take more than tuning and breathing mods.
As awesome as the dc2 itr was, it used to get spanked against rsx's with hondata and race headers. I'd seen it countless times. The outcome in the vid is not far fetched at all.
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#5793953 - 09/10/11 12:24 AM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: Euphoricuck]
Kick to ze liver Offline
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Registered: 12/24/10
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 Originally Posted By: Stock94si
That rsx always seems like it's faster than it should be.. what's it trap?

I think you're getting my car mixed up with this one, which is an 04 that was just recently tuned by Chris @ Xenocron, also added Z1 cams from the 05-06 RSX-S and RRC Intake Manifold, car actually made more than my 05 w/ 236whp.

 Originally Posted By: Euphoric
125 on the forums. 102 in real life.

but really...the maths say an eg with that set up should pull the rsx...imo


I'd guess 101-103. The Hatch is full weight and had a full tank of gas, then again, I was in the RSX and the Hatch didn't have a passenger. He put down 208whp which is impressive for his mods.
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#5793954 - 09/10/11 12:27 AM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: cliff st-clair]
Kick to ze liver Offline
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 Originally Posted By: cliff st-clair
 Originally Posted By: Quad4_driver
Didnt know B18c5s could do 200+ whp with bolt ons.Impressive.


that is not very realistic, probably a high reading dyno. They dyno like 162-165 bone stock. To make 200whp you'd think it would take more than tuning and breathing mods.
As awesome as the dc2 itr was, it used to get spanked against rsx's with hondata and race headers. I'd seen it countless times. The outcome in the vid is not far fetched at all.


Here's a direct quote from the tuner about the dyno used.

"In fact most chassis dynos measure flywheel hp and calculate wheel...how come you can do a pull in 3rd gear or 4th gear and basically they measure the same

This is "comparison mode" which is Dyno Dynamics method of equating to Dynojet numbers...it says flywheel on the graphs (just like dynapack) but every car I have had report to me about going on a local Dynojet the numbers have been within 1-2% as far as I have been told"

and here is the thread. http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2974988
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#5794001 - 09/10/11 01:47 AM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: Kick to ze liver]
Nealoc187 Offline
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dude stole the hit bad in the first race
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#5794185 - 09/10/11 09:41 AM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: Nealoc187]
ElectronVTEC2 Offline
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It took Jun 3's, i/h/e and a tune to get to 197 whp on my old B18C5, FWIW. T'was a fun setup though.

Todd
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#5794261 - 09/10/11 10:59 AM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: Nealoc187]
NVMYMPGZ Offline
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Registered: 05/10/11
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 Originally Posted By: Nealoc187
dude stole the hit bad in the first race

Haha. Yes i did!
No worries tho. Results are as i expected. More mods coming soon for the hatch

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#5794394 - 09/10/11 01:05 PM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: Kick to ze liver]
cliff st-clair Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Kick to ze liver
 Originally Posted By: cliff st-clair
 Originally Posted By: Quad4_driver
Didnt know B18c5s could do 200+ whp with bolt ons.Impressive.


that is not very realistic, probably a high reading dyno. They dyno like 162-165 bone stock. To make 200whp you'd think it would take more than tuning and breathing mods.
As awesome as the dc2 itr was, it used to get spanked against rsx's with hondata and race headers. I'd seen it countless times. The outcome in the vid is not far fetched at all.


Here's a direct quote from the tuner about the dyno used.

"In fact most chassis dynos measure flywheel hp and calculate wheel...how come you can do a pull in 3rd gear or 4th gear and basically they measure the same

This is "comparison mode" which is Dyno Dynamics method of equating to Dynojet numbers...it says flywheel on the graphs (just like dynapack) but every car I have had report to me about going on a local Dynojet the numbers have been within 1-2% as far as I have been told"

and here is the thread. http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2974988


How come you didnt quote this: "It's an excellent tune and I'm sure the car works great but do people really think for a second that it's putting down an actual 208.6 whp to the ground?"
Anyway, he's going to Etown on Wednesday so we can keep an eye on what he's going to run, should be a nice night. I'm guessing around 14.1-14.2@97-98mph on street tires. To me this is more like a 185whp hatch.
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#5794529 - 09/10/11 03:24 PM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: cliff st-clair]
Kick to ze liver Offline
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 Originally Posted By: cliff st-clair
 Originally Posted By: Kick to ze liver
 Originally Posted By: cliff st-clair
 Originally Posted By: Quad4_driver
Didnt know B18c5s could do 200+ whp with bolt ons.Impressive.


that is not very realistic, probably a high reading dyno. They dyno like 162-165 bone stock. To make 200whp you'd think it would take more than tuning and breathing mods.
As awesome as the dc2 itr was, it used to get spanked against rsx's with hondata and race headers. I'd seen it countless times. The outcome in the vid is not far fetched at all.


Here's a direct quote from the tuner about the dyno used.

"In fact most chassis dynos measure flywheel hp and calculate wheel...how come you can do a pull in 3rd gear or 4th gear and basically they measure the same

This is "comparison mode" which is Dyno Dynamics method of equating to Dynojet numbers...it says flywheel on the graphs (just like dynapack) but every car I have had report to me about going on a local Dynojet the numbers have been within 1-2% as far as I have been told"

and here is the thread. http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2974988


How come you didnt quote this: "It's an excellent tune and I'm sure the car works great but do people really think for a second that it's putting down an actual 208.6 whp to the ground?"
Anyway, he's going to Etown on Wednesday so we can keep an eye on what he's going to run, should be a nice night. I'm guessing around 14.1-14.2@97-98mph on street tires. To me this is more like a 185whp hatch.


Because that person has absolutely nothing to do with anything lol, he didn't build or tune the car, just some random opinion on the internet, lol...why would I quote him? I quote the professional who does this for a living and actually worked on the car. Anyways, it really doesn't matter to me what the car made for power, but lol @ thinking you'll know the power it puts down based on an ET/Trap when there are so many other variables involved. You don't know what it weighs, you don't know what tires he is on, you don't even know what trans he is running lol.


Edited by Kick to ze liver (09/10/11 03:26 PM)
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#5795026 - 09/10/11 11:30 PM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: Kick to ze liver]
cliff st-clair Offline
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Genius, you quoted the first part of his post, but not the last.
Anyway, blah blah blah...this is not a 200whp hatch. k thanx bye.
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#5795061 - 09/11/11 12:02 AM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: cliff st-clair]
NVMYMPGZ Offline
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Registered: 05/10/11
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 Originally Posted By: cliff st-clair
Genius, you quoted the first part of his post, but not the last.
Anyway, blah blah blah...this is not a 200whp hatch. k thanx bye.

208.6. Get it right

Hey cliff. Ive got the gopro ready. 200hp or not im ready to roll out on that 350.
chalk up the visit to yonkers to catching up with old friends

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#5795943 - 09/11/11 06:19 PM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: ElectronVTEC2]
Euphoricuck Offline
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theres no way that hatch is putting down 208 whp imho... with that kind of weight advantage it wouldve been gone.
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#5795994 - 09/11/11 06:48 PM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: Euphoricuck]
LNXGUY Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Euphoric
theres no way that hatch is putting down 208 whp imho... with that kind of weight advantage it wouldve been gone.


I'm not into Hondas, but I still understand power/weight ratios.

There's no fucking way that hatch has 208whp
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#5796041 - 09/11/11 07:09 PM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: LNXGUY]
NVMYMPGZ Offline
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Lol at anyone here knowing what the hatch or rsx weighed that night
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#5796076 - 09/11/11 07:32 PM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: NVMYMPGZ]
LNXGUY Offline
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 Originally Posted By: NVMYMPGZ
Lol at anyone here knowing what the hatch or rsx weighed that night


I think we all can assume the hatch is quite a bit lighter then the RSX..
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#5797547 - 09/12/11 03:26 PM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: LNXGUY]
ElectronVTEC2 Offline
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Since you have to load that hatch up with concrete to break 2500 pounds, and the RSX starts at about 2800. So, even if both are lightened up, advantage goes to the hatch by quite a bit. Having had and tuned a B18C5 on Jun3's, it's not that easy to put down 208 whp. I put down 197 with a JDM ITR header, so I suppose there was another 5-7 with a better piece there, but unless it's running higher compression and/or ITB's, 200 whp isn't exactly a cakewalk. Still, I bet 200 whp would be a lot of fun in that hatch.

Todd
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#5797614 - 09/12/11 03:56 PM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: ElectronVTEC2]
Euphoricuck Offline
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200whp is a cakewalk ...but that hatch isnt putting that down unless that rsx is a custom convertible.


*your experience isnt exactly a prime example of what you can do ;\) *

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#5797988 - 09/12/11 07:19 PM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: ]
A_Mantis Administrator Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Doshoru~
To add to the "debate"...

Unless something is seriously wrong with either motor, the k20 would also have a much fatter power band due not only to more displacement, but also b/c of i-vtAk. Peak power ain't everything.

and tighter gearing too (6spd vs 5spd)
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#5797998 - 09/12/11 07:24 PM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: A_Mantis]
GaragePC Offline
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saw the hatch yesterday and took this pic:

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#5798017 - 09/12/11 07:33 PM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: ]
Euphoricuck Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Doshoru~
To add to the "debate"...

Unless something is seriously wrong with either motor, the k20 would also have a much fatter power band due not only to more displacement, but also b/c of i-vtAk. Peak power ain't everything.
ya well you know that really means a lot cause they started the race at 1000 rpm...
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#5798141 - 09/12/11 08:26 PM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: Euphoricuck]
PsychoEBPSiR Offline
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lol i drove a hatch with boom system at the track with b18 making 174whp .... best time with a 2.0 60ft was a 14.1 at 97mph

id put my money on the RSX every day vs the EG ....if EG had a k20 ..."forget about it" /hugh grant
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#5798414 - 09/12/11 09:46 PM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: Euphoricuck]
cliff st-clair Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Euphoric
200whp is a cakewalk ...but that hatch isnt putting that down unless that rsx is a custom convertible.

*your experience isnt exactly a prime example of what you can do ;\) *
is m


lol even with the b18c5 a realistic 200whp is not achievable with only boltons and tuning. That is just not possible. That is k20 territory and no internally stock b series does that. Come on, you out of all people should know this.
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#5798434 - 09/12/11 09:53 PM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: NVMYMPGZ]
cliff st-clair Offline
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 Originally Posted By: NVMYMPGZ
[quote=cliff st-clair]Genius, you quoted the first part of his post, but not the last.
Anyway, blah blah blah...this is not a 200whp hatch. k thanx bye.

208.6. Get it right

Hey cliff. Ive got the gopro ready. 200hp or not im ready to roll out on that 350.
chalk up the visit to yonkers to catching up with old friends [/quote

Who is this?
Yeah haven't been to yonkers since the civic days. But the 350 does not race, well...not for the time being anyway.
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#5798519 - 09/12/11 10:25 PM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: cliff st-clair]
ElectronVTEC2 Offline
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Personally, I couldn't care less. 200 whp is not a "cake walk" nor is it cheap, unless it's just a freak motor or a forgiving dyno. I stopped worrying about 200 whp cars a long time ago. On a side note, we got the new setup started finally today. Hoping to get to the track next Friday tuned for 30 psi on E85. It should make 200 whp by about 3500 RPM

Todd
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#5798918 - 09/13/11 08:08 AM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: cliff st-clair]
NVMYMPGZ Offline
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 Originally Posted By: cliff st-clair
Yeah haven't been to yonkers since the civic days. But the 350 does not race, well...not for the time being anyway.

You should come out to say hello sometime!
I had a red turbo mk2 back in the TR days.

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#5798949 - 09/13/11 08:37 AM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: ElectronVTEC2]
Euphoricuck Offline
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well apparently you care since you are in here posting, and must tell us about it twice in this thread...

I dont see how a 208whp eg is trapping less than 102 mph... my buddies itr would do 98 mph all day long back in like 01 and all he had was an aem cai.
thats like 170whp and 2700lbs.

+ 38 hp and lighter weight equals more than 4 mph... so I dont think that eg is making that much power.

shit even a stock 18c5 swap in an eg should easily be 101mph... by itself.



bolt on b18c5 with a tune can easily make 190whp. with a magic header you could even increase that.

heres a basic set up for electron with some head work.

http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2377419

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#5798958 - 09/13/11 08:50 AM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: Euphoricuck]
ElectronVTEC2 Offline
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I don't need proof, dude - I DID IT. And it's not just "swap in some parts and go run 200 whp" like you're making it out to be. Head work != a bolt-on. Cams are barely a bolt-on IMO. Can 200 whp be done? Absolutely, is it easy, no. Do I care? Ok, yes I care when I'm arguing back and forth about something I know to be true from personal experience. To get to 200 whp you have to rev out to 9000 RPM and you're barely making any additional power, it's just to hit a number when in reality, you'd be faster if you shifted a bit earlier to get back in the fat part of the powerband. Not sure if that makes sense, but that's how it worked in mine and, B18C5's haven't really changed much in the last 10 years.

To clarify my "I don't care" sentiment, and I thought I made this clear at the end of my last post, but 200 whp cars are not anything I care about these days. Go have fun running 14's with a pricey engine, expensive bolt-ons, and a car you have to rape the shit out of to get it moving in traffic. Again, been there, done that.

Todd
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#5799169 - 09/13/11 10:28 AM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: ]
Euphoricuck Offline
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Registered: 11/05/03
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197whp with jun3's is weak

that itr header didnt do you any favours.

but more than likely they didnt have any good headers back then... a good header and better tune makes a difference.


peruse the all motor thread
http://www.htarchive.net/showthread.php?t=1583606

 Quote:
JDM 98 Spec ITR
65mm T/B
Hy-tec replica header 2.5" collector(heat wrapped)
2.5" Exhaust piping straight to Apex'i WS muffler
short ram intake/ K&N filter
440cc injectors
Walbro 255 Fuel Pump
Tuned on Hondata S300 93 octane
202.26HP/136.77TQ



as for shifting... its not a puke n die ms3... rev those hondas out.

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#5799315 - 09/13/11 11:27 AM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: Euphoricuck]
OnyxEros Offline
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one thing that ive seen about low displacement 200whp motors is that for the most part when they break 200 SAE wheel hp they generally do it briefly at very high rpm, 7k+ and if you don't have the tranny or shifting correct you can fall out of your powerband very easily.
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#5799364 - 09/13/11 11:43 AM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: ]
ElectronVTEC2 Offline
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Registered: 07/10/08
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 Originally Posted By: Doshoru~
o_O

Wait a minute...Why would you want shift when the result is going to be not only less HP, but less torque multiplication (higher gear) as well??

If revving higher nets you more power, you do it, lol. THAT's the "fatter part of the power band". It doesn't matter if you're "barely making more power" -- hell, you want to hold the gear with the better torque multiplier until some point PAST peak power, but NEVER before, lol. You only shift when the power dies off by more than the torque multiplier is gaining you, which is going to be different for different cars depending on how rapidly power dies off.


Apparently I'm explaining it wrong, but torque fell off substantially above 8500 RPM, but you could eek out an extra 1-2 whp by winding it out to 9000+ RPM. I think the highest we ever went was 9400 on the mustang dyno (170 whp on that dyno if I remember right, but it's been awhile) and there was no reason to go that high. Instead, shifting at 8600 or so might have been 1-2 whp less than peak, but because of the short gearing in that trans, it was better for me to shift which landed me at 6K which was closer to peak torque than if I had held out the shift to 9400, even though I technically made a smidge more power at 9400. I fully realize you don't want to sacrifice power by shifting early but I guess I wasn't fully explaining how high we tried to go.

Euphoric - the best header back then was the HyTech, and I wasn't spending that kind of money to go bigger. The JDM was a great compromise and made good midrange which was nice since I didn't track that car much anyway. I also had no idea how to tune a car back then, so I may have been able to make more power with a better tune, who knows. I know Tom wasn't tuning for peak power on my setup, he spent hours tuning it to run well on the street and it really did. AndthenIsoldeverythingandboughtaturboandneverlookedback.

Tod
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#5799371 - 09/13/11 11:45 AM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: OnyxEros]
Euphoricuck Offline
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 Originally Posted By: happy black man
one thing that ive seen about low displacement 200whp motors is that for the most part when they break 200 SAE wheel hp they generally do it briefly at very high rpm, 7k+ and if you don't have the tranny or shifting correct you can fall out of your powerband very easily.
that goes without saying ;\)
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#5799817 - 09/13/11 02:31 PM Re: 04 RSX-S vs. EG Hatch w/ B18C5 [Re: Euphoricuck]
NVMYMPGZ Offline
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Registered: 05/10/11
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Loc: White Plains, NY
For anyone local an interested, we are heading out to Englishtown this Wednesday (tomorrow), for test n tune.
It would be cool to meet some of you guys!

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2-Piece Civic Rotors
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