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#59956 - 10/23/04 09:00 PM Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
SiAdam Moderator Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 19262
Loc: West By God Virginia
Once I have my engine put together with the piston/rod combo, what type of snail should I look for?

Right now I have the all-famous 14b. I was looking into a big 16g, but I am not sure if it will put me @ the hp I am shooting for which is around 300'ish. Will that get me there on lets say decent tuning and 9.1.1 compression...or am I looking @ a t3t4 setup???

Thanks all...
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05 Berlina Black S2000 700whp / 500wtq
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#59957 - 10/23/04 09:24 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
TTWS6 Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 06/09/02
Posts: 417
Loc: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Any hybrid turbo should make 300 peak hp. why do u want to make 300hp?
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#59958 - 10/23/04 09:26 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
96accordEX Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 9886
Why don't you go with a Precision t3/t4 Street & High Performance snail tha suits your motor setup and needs for #'s best? They are proven, and everyone that runs them seems to love them.

I bought my SC44 from Jayson (PensacolaSi) at Forced Air, and I couldn't be any more happier after dealing with him.

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#59959 - 10/23/04 11:15 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
SiAdam Moderator Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 19262
Loc: West By God Virginia
Quote:

Any hybrid turbo should make 300 peak hp. why do u want to make 300hp?




Why not...??

I feel its good to have a goal....thats all...I did the 200whp thing...why not the 300whp thing...?

I went to Sc34, but didn't see any prices???

Can anyone help....
Thanks....
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05 Berlina Black S2000 700whp / 500wtq
Built, not bought.

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#59960 - 10/23/04 11:31 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
Honda350 Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 09/28/02
Posts: 33798
Loc: South FL
Quote:

Quote:

Any hybrid turbo should make 300 peak hp. why do u want to make 300hp?




Why not...??

I feel its good to have a goal....thats all...I did the 200whp thing...why not the 300whp thing...?

I went to Sc34, but didn't see any prices???

Can anyone help....
Thanks....





sc34

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#59961 - 10/23/04 11:48 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
SiAdam Moderator Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 19262
Loc: West By God Virginia
Your Price: $742.50

cough cough....I remember now, why I went with the 14b. They are a dime a dozen....

Is that the best possible price?
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05 Berlina Black S2000 700whp / 500wtq
Built, not bought.

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#59962 - 10/24/04 12:06 AM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
mastrcobb Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 665
you gotta pay to play, and playing at 300hp isn't cheap in a honda
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wtf is wrong with your head? that's like asking "if i get shot in the heart with a .357, will i die any more than getting shot with a .44?"
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#59963 - 10/24/04 12:07 AM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
Euphoricuck Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan
personally id get an sc61 and make 300 whp at like 8-10 psi..then up it to 15 and make 400 on your built motor..but thats me

sc34 isnt a bad choice though. way better then the 14b. itll treat you right..
get it tuned well please..none of this vafc hack shit..especially ifyour investing in a built motor..dont think it wont blow up
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#59964 - 10/24/04 12:57 AM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
SiAdam Moderator Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 19262
Loc: West By God Virginia
Built doesn't include sleeves....so I think 400hp is out of the question.....

I will be investing in a Hondata if I build the engine...

$700+ bucks is steep for a turbo Imo...I have no doubt its rock solid...this is a fun project....not a track car that I want to dump tons of $$ into....
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05 Berlina Black S2000 700whp / 500wtq
Built, not bought.

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#59965 - 10/24/04 01:42 AM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
Euphoricuck Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan
so what? stock sleeves EASILY handle 400 whp. people have made 600+ whp with them.

there is no reason why you cant make 400 whp with only piston and rods(+other shit like fuel mods)...well there is...the turbo you choose

700 isnt that steap at all. not the cheapest but certainley not steap.
and they raent that much moeny to rebuild..garret gt turbos on the other hadn are(adn cost 1500 us new) thats getting steap
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#59966 - 10/24/04 02:05 AM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
XxRoCkMaNxNEOxX Offline
Poster


Registered: 06/30/02
Posts: 308
if u want ill try and post pics of the turbo in my engine bay.
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00 SI TURBO SC34 w/ 48 a/r 277whp 191tq @ 13 psi (St00pid Tuned) 1/4: soon

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#59967 - 10/24/04 05:34 AM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
4doorEG Administrator Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 6113
Loc: Overland Park, KS
Damn, your 14b turbo probably felt like my JRSC on my D-series. puke and die up top hehe

Power still increased on a dyno, but like the way it should FEEL like a big snail.

I'm going with a garrett or turbonetics turbo. Some like a straight T3 48.60 on a b16, but if you're throwing in pistons/rods and plan to up the boost. Go with the famous T3/T4 hybirds. Just gotta keep an eye out for a good deal.\
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#59968 - 10/24/04 09:25 AM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
cliff st-clair Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 01/03/00
Posts: 6376
Loc: Queens Village, NY
I'd go t3/t4s.

If you're not going to upgrade the valvetrain I wouldn't go anywhere near the SC61. On the manifold you're using and with your exhaust (2.5" right?) you will never spool it up.

Even with a 3" catless exhaust and the revhard manifold my SC50 spools kind of late, like full boost in 3rd gear comes at 5300-5500rpms or so. For daily driving it's hard to get in boost if I don't rev it to at least 5k.

The Sc61 is a great turbo, but it needs the right parts for it to work the way it's supposed to. A lower compression stock bore and stroke b16 is not what I would consider a good foundation for it.


The 16g will probably get you to high 200s but you'll have to boost the shit out of it.

If I were you I'd try to pick up a 57 trim T3/704e from Garrett, it's essentially the same as the Sc34 but cheaper. I'd also go with the .48 exhaust housing.
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#59969 - 10/24/04 11:08 AM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
TTWS6 Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 06/09/02
Posts: 417
Loc: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Quote:

Quote:

Any hybrid turbo should make 300 peak hp. why do u want to make 300hp?




Why not...??

I feel its good to have a goal....thats all...I did the 200whp thing...why not the 300whp thing...?



I went to Sc34, but didn't see any prices???

Can anyone help....
Thanks....




you missed my point. if you make 300peak hp at 8k it will drive different than a car that peaks 300hp at 6500. so why limit yourself with a round Hp figure? why not set your goal by driveability and actual speed? why are people so fixated on peak hp figures as if it means something?

put plain and simple. if you make 300 peak hp from a sc34 its a totally different car if its making that 300 peak hp from a bigger sc61. I dont think you understand what you want thats why I asked you why do you want 300hp.

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#59970 - 10/24/04 04:15 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
SiAdam Moderator Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 19262
Loc: West By God Virginia
Beleive it or not, my 14b really didn't die out to much. I mean it could have pulled harder in the upper Rpms, only fell of a few psi by 8k....anyway....

I found an equal length manifold for a t3/t4 setup. I plan on ditching my existing turbo and manifold and upgrading to a 3" d/p. As of right now I have a 2.5". As $$ and time allows I will prolly go with a 3". I am going to buy a welder this fall/winter and try learning how to weld my own stuff. I don't want to have to rely on somebody else doing my work. Frustrates me...

As far as what I need...to be honest with you guys I don't know. I can tell you want I am doing and what I want...maybe that will help.

Stock valvetrain rev to 8k.
Stock bore with eagle rods and weisco/srp/cp pistons. 9.1.1 approx.
Stock sleeves.
Tuned w/Hondata.

Now.....what turbo should I look into. Its gonna be driven mostly on the street, with some autocross and alot of drag.

With that said, spool is important...stop light to stop light. I want to make good solid power (obviously...lol).

Price is also a huge factor. I don't have nor want to spend $700+ dollars on a turbo.

What are my options...

Again...thx for everyones help....I very much appreciate it....
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05 Berlina Black S2000 700whp / 500wtq
Built, not bought.

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#59971 - 10/24/04 04:27 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
JediMindTricks Offline
Jr Poster


Registered: 03/28/04
Posts: 84
T3/T4 .63
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DRAG - "Power is Everything"

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#59972 - 10/24/04 07:30 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
SiAdam Moderator Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 19262
Loc: West By God Virginia
Quote:

T3/T4 .63




ok...but why?
_________________________
05 Berlina Black S2000 700whp / 500wtq
Built, not bought.

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#59973 - 10/24/04 11:28 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
SiAdam Moderator Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 19262
Loc: West By God Virginia
I was doing a little researching on H-T also and ran across this...

Quote:

Precision SC61 turbo is in excellent condition. Has around 20 passes plus a little road mileage on it. T3, T350 76 trim wheel hot side .63 a/r, 4 bolt dp pattern. Compressor is an E housing .60 a/r using the GT40 compressor wheel. Turbo made 510whp with a mild tune on my CRX, but now it's time to upgrade. Asking $500




Not gonna by it...but is this something I would be looking for...y/n and why?

Thanks....
_________________________
05 Berlina Black S2000 700whp / 500wtq
Built, not bought.

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#59974 - 10/25/04 12:52 AM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
PensacolaSi Offline
Major Member


Registered: 11/09/02
Posts: 1334
Loc: Hampton Roads, VA
Quote:

Your Price: $742.50

cough cough....I remember now, why I went with the 14b. They are a dime a dozen....

Is that the best possible price?





Taken from home page, which of course you didnt see since you had a direct link (no hatin on the link providing though):


"If you do not create an account, you will NOT see our lowest pricing, period. Don't miss out! Take two minutes to create an account with us. To do so, taking only two minutes of your time, click on "LOGON" above, then click on "I am a new customer". If you have created an account with us, you are already seeing the benefits, which includes savings of over 3% on many items. Simply for creating an account! "


That is all.

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#59975 - 10/25/04 12:56 AM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
PensacolaSi Offline
Major Member


Registered: 11/09/02
Posts: 1334
Loc: Hampton Roads, VA
Quote:

I was doing a little researching on H-T also and ran across this...




Quote:

Precision SC61 turbo is in excellent condition. Has around 20 passes plus a little road mileage on it. T3, T350 76 trim wheel hot side .63 a/r, 4 bolt dp pattern. Compressor is an E housing .60 a/r using the GT40 compressor wheel. Turbo made 510whp with a mild tune on my CRX, but now it's time to upgrade. Asking $500




No. Not if your power goals are roughly 300whp and you know that thats going to be your goal for awhile (not to say my recommendation coming up wont support more). The reason. The SC61 while having a decent progressing powerband, will still more than likely be far too "laggy" for your application.

I'm shooting from the hip here since I do not know your setup, but, the GT28RS, GT35R and GT3255 are all nice turbos that would probably better suit you.


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#59976 - 10/25/04 02:29 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
SiAdam Moderator Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 19262
Loc: West By God Virginia
Didn't even see that....I will create an account and see what I come up with...

I want a good powerband that doesn't lag. 300whp on a daily driver 2600lb car is alot. That will last me for a while...lol...

What I don't understand is this: What logic are you guys using to say X turbo is great...while Y turbo is going to be to laggy?

I don't see where you are getting this and how you know?

Please be kind....
_________________________
05 Berlina Black S2000 700whp / 500wtq
Built, not bought.

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#59977 - 10/25/04 04:51 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
cliff st-clair Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 01/03/00
Posts: 6376
Loc: Queens Village, NY
Man you don't have to listen to any of us.

Here, take a look at different dynos of different setups tuned by one guy. This will allow you to compare and give you an idea of what makes the kind of power you're looking for and what kind of powerband you're looking for:

http://www.evans-tuning.com/viewforum.php?f=5&sid=183d2f3719feee07b455d0a607708a1a

I mean, we can sit here all day long and talk about what works and what doesn't. But from what I've learned in this game, noone knows for sure what kind of power you will make and how to give you the powerband of your dreams; it's impossible to tell unless you've actually tried things yourself, because noone knows your setup as well as you. Noone on here has the right answer for sure.

Oh....and you get used to 300whp reeeealll quick. Trust me.

I'll say it again, I'd try a t3/t4 with a .48 exhaust housing if I were you. Precision sc50s. sc32s, sc34s...don't matter, any of these will make 300whp pretty easily.
The Gt28rs will probably outspool any of those, cuz it's ball bearing and not quite as big a turbo, but last time I checked, they cost over a grand. If Pensacola can do better than that, then by all means go for one of those
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03' 350z
04' Mazda 3 s

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#59978 - 10/25/04 07:58 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
PensacolaSi Offline
Major Member


Registered: 11/09/02
Posts: 1334
Loc: Hampton Roads, VA
Quote:

I mean, we can sit here all day long and talk about what works and what doesn't. But from what I've learned in this game, noone knows for sure what kind of power you will make and how to give you the powerband of your dreams; it's impossible to tell unless you've actually tried things yourself, because noone knows your setup as well as you. Noone on here has the right answer for sure.





Though speaking from experience of performing dynos, selling turbos left and right. I -believe- you'd be happy with the results from the GT3255. Although, I still do not know your setup, therefore it only makes things a little more difficult.

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#59979 - 10/25/04 11:39 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
SiAdam Moderator Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 19262
Loc: West By God Virginia
Thanks guys...I apprecaite the extra help you all have showed. I am in the process of "learning" what I need to do, and what I need to make $$. I

I will be in touch...

Thanks again....
_________________________
05 Berlina Black S2000 700whp / 500wtq
Built, not bought.

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#59980 - 10/27/04 12:50 AM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
Euphoricuck Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan
please do yourself a favour and go with a .63 exh a/r... not a .48.

an sc61 would spool fine ... but ifyou want something alittle quick id go with an sc34.

how it is gt35r gonna spool better then an sc61


if hes complaning about 700 for a new t3/t4 you can forget agbout any of the GT stuff.

not to mention a gt35r wont spool super fast either.

to me... a honda motor doesnt have low end..they are high end screamers and get moving once vtec hits..so for a street turbo anything spooling as late as 5500 is good in my books! dont forget fullboost at 5500 doesnt mean NO boost at all till then..its somewhat progressive.
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#59981 - 10/27/04 12:58 AM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
SiAdam Moderator Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 19262
Loc: West By God Virginia
Yea...the Gt stuff is close or over a grand...way to rich for my blood. This is a fun hobby, not my life, especially while I am still going to school.

I like the sc61/34 stuff. Seems good quality. I would like to be in boost by around 3-5k. Not necessaraly full boost but in boost none the less.

B/c what I enjoyed about my car before was that it had more low end for everyday driving. I don't want it to be a dog below 4k.....

_________________________
05 Berlina Black S2000 700whp / 500wtq
Built, not bought.

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#59982 - 10/27/04 10:42 AM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
cliff st-clair Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 01/03/00
Posts: 6376
Loc: Queens Village, NY
Quote:

please do yourself a favour and go with a .63 exh a/r... not a .48.

an sc61 would spool fine ...




Any reasoning behind your suggestion? I mean he clearly stated that he wanted a more responsive turbo. I really don't think the SC61 or a .63 a/r exhaust housing is what he's looking for. Not everybody wants to make 600whp to impress the internet crowd and have a useless street car.

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03' 350z
04' Mazda 3 s

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#59983 - 10/27/04 10:51 AM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
cliff st-clair Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 01/03/00
Posts: 6376
Loc: Queens Village, NY
Quote:


I like the sc61/34 stuff. Seems good quality. I would like to be in boost by around 3-5k. Not necessaraly full boost but in boost none the less.







Oh any of those you will start to make boost at 3.5k rpms, but it won't be anything major. What you want is something that will make full boost by 4200-4500rpms, then you're talking spoolup.

On my sc50 I start making boost at 3krpms but it isn't until 5k rpms+ that I start to feel significant power. In day to day traffic, if I want to feel boost I find myself shifting at around 6krpms.

My powerband is great for racing, because it's always in the high rpms after every shift, but for daily driving, it could use a faster spool up.

It's become more apparent lately because I've been driving the car in day to day traffic a lot.
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03' 350z
04' Mazda 3 s

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#59984 - 10/27/04 04:02 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
SiAdam Moderator Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 19262
Loc: West By God Virginia
Yea....I want to feel some boost by or around 4k for daily driving..help with the stop light to stop light routine.

As far as dragging and highway pulls...topend would be fabalous....
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05 Berlina Black S2000 700whp / 500wtq
Built, not bought.

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#59985 - 10/27/04 05:01 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
Gab Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 04/24/02
Posts: 16915
Loc: Boston, MA
Well IMO the following constraints..

1. Have low-end response
2. Great top-end
3. 300+ whp
4. Not too expensive

don't have a match for a 1.6 liter Honda engine. The only way would be a ball-bearing turbo with a somewhat large exhaust housing to feed the top-end.

You could always try the sc50 with .48 a/r but I don't know how the top-end would be. 12-15 psi should net you 300whp..

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#59986 - 10/27/04 10:19 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
mastrcobb Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 665
would it help the spoolup of a .63 a/r if he went to a 3" exhaust and a equal length manifold?

isn't the 14b a .48 a/r also? and he never had problems with it dying off in upper rpms?
_________________________
wtf is wrong with your head? that's like asking "if i get shot in the heart with a .357, will i die any more than getting shot with a .44?"
- jsmonet

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#59987 - 10/27/04 10:48 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
Euphoricuck Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan
it dies..he just doesn tknow any better
ahhahaa.

i think he should go with the .63 a/r cause itll still spool just fine.
i really don tknow why your spools so late cliff.
friend of mine has a t3/t04e 57 trim and hits full boost around 4600 rpm.

i agree with what gab said...
you want to do to much that really isnt possible.

why do you want more power for daily use? the car is fine by itself ... you plan on boosting in every gear? your gas mileage will be complete shit if you do that!!!

i can understand for the odd ocation though.
however nothing a downshift cant fix.... even if it hits full boost at 4500 rpm the car STILL wont really be that quick since itl will be making maybe 150 ftlbs of torque and low hp(low revs)... it doesnt make sense to try and make the motor what its not. a low end powerhouse.
just enhance what you alreadyhave.

my turbo had some boost by 3500 rpm but didnt hit full till 5k rpm.. it did have some slightt more pick up in the 3.5-5k range but to me it didnt make any difference for daily use since if i were to try and take advantage of that extra pick up..it jsut meant more gas being used..if im gonna use more gas i might aswell be at 8000 rpm

i woudl go with the sc61 but thats me. easily make 300 whp by 10 psi and spool up isnt that bad..but if you really want that extra 500-1000 little bit of go...then a 50 trim would probably suit you better..but id still stick with the .63 a/r.
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#59988 - 10/28/04 10:28 AM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
mastrcobb Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 665
I rode in his car with the 14b, it didn't die off, though the wastegate was only set at 9lbs. That turbo has a good bit more in it, though I don't think near enough to peak 300hp.

Anyways, like I said would a bigger exhaust and an equal length manifold help spool? Also do you think he'll have to upgrade his fuel injectors...right now he's running 450's.
_________________________
wtf is wrong with your head? that's like asking "if i get shot in the heart with a .357, will i die any more than getting shot with a .44?"
- jsmonet

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#59989 - 10/28/04 11:17 AM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
cliff st-clair Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 01/03/00
Posts: 6376
Loc: Queens Village, NY
Here's a dyno for a revhard kit with a 57 trim t3t4 and the .48 a/r housing 2.5" dp and 3" exhaust. Boost level was 9psi. Engine is stock B16a2.

There's no dying off.




Here's practically the same kit at the same boost level on another stock b16a with a 57 trim t3t4 and .63 a/r. 2.5" dp, 2.5" catback exhaust



Considering boost levels and the exhaust on both kits were almost similar I thought it was a fair way to compare the a/r housings since it was the main difference in the kits. Both kits were tuned on the same dyno by the same tuner using Hondata s200.

You can clearly see that the bigger one definitely lags more, and in this particular case produces less peak hp. Also if you compare the area under the curve between 3500-5000rpms in those two setups you can clearly see what I'm talking about.

Anyway, I am most definitely going to switch to the smaller housing. It's not that expensive and I want to compare badly. Once I do you'll see my own dyno comparisons from before and after. :cool

I'm in no way trying to make my car feel like a v8, but midrange response could be better. I've ridden and driven enough turbo hondas to know this.








Edited by cliff st-clair (10/28/04 11:19 AM)
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04' Mazda 3 s

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#59990 - 10/28/04 11:25 AM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
cliff st-clair Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 01/03/00
Posts: 6376
Loc: Queens Village, NY
Quote:

I rode in his car with the 14b, it didn't die off, though the wastegate was only set at 9lbs. That turbo has a good bit more in it, though I don't think near enough to peak 300hp.

Anyways, like I said would a bigger exhaust and an equal length manifold help spool? Also do you think he'll have to upgrade his fuel injectors...right now he's running 450's.




A bigger exhaust and ELM would definitely help more, but unless he can fabricate his own I really don't think he wants to go there. Those manifolds are pricey.

Those injectors will be maxed out at that power level, and that's after raising his static fuel pressure to 50psi or so. I guess he can raise it even more, but I wouldn't do it.
To be safe he needs at least 680s. You always want bigger injectors than you need, just to avoid running them at near 100% duty cycle.
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04' Mazda 3 s

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