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#59991 - 10/28/04 11:29 AM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
Gab Offline
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Registered: 04/24/02
Posts: 16915
Loc: Boston, MA
Cliff, I'm delighted that you are willing to be the first guinea-pig with the .48 a/r Please please keep me posted on how it goes, I've been tempted to make the same move for a LONG time.

Supid question: You'll need to retune the entire thing right?

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#59992 - 10/28/04 12:00 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
mastrcobb Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 665
Quote:


Anyway, I am most definitely going to switch to the smaller housing. It's not that expensive and I want to compare badly. Once I do you'll see my own dyno comparisons from before and after.

I'm in no way trying to make my car feel like a v8, but midrange response could be better. I've ridden and driven enough turbo hondas to know this.







Wow that helps out a lot. Definitely let us know what happens. I am really interested. .48 a/r is more and more seeming to be the way to go. Too bad there is really no such thing as like a .55 a/r


Edit: Yay! finally a Jr. Poster after over 2 years!
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#59993 - 10/28/04 05:36 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
SiAdam Moderator Offline
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Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 19262
Loc: West By God Virginia
I don't understand...I got 200whp and 153wtq with the little 14b @ aprox 8 psi in 4th gear...

Its not worth my time or $$ to "upgrade" for 20-30 hp...?

I don't understand....
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05 Berlina Black S2000 700whp / 500wtq
Built, not bought.

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#59994 - 10/28/04 06:08 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
mastrcobb Offline
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Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 665
where'd you get that from?
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wtf is wrong with your head? that's like asking "if i get shot in the heart with a .357, will i die any more than getting shot with a .44?"
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#59995 - 10/28/04 06:31 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
Euphoricuck Offline
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Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan
first? cause no one has used a .48?

that test isnt right.
if they are the same the .63 should be making more torque and hp even if it"lags" a little more..
go ahead with the .48. IMO i wouldnt do it.
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#59996 - 10/28/04 09:10 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
mastrcobb Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 665
I say get the .48 cause :

1. it's going to be better than what you have now, making you happy regardless
2. It's not going to die off....the 14b didn't, that turbo will flow more air, so it's not going to either.


actually get the one that you can get the best deal on...i recommend a .48...maybe you can call a couple dyno shops see what they recommend/have seen on your setups
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wtf is wrong with your head? that's like asking "if i get shot in the heart with a .357, will i die any more than getting shot with a .44?"
- jsmonet

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#59997 - 10/28/04 09:25 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
SiAdam Moderator Offline
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Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 19262
Loc: West By God Virginia
I would like to see some info so I could better understand all this. Make my decision alot easier....
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05 Berlina Black S2000 700whp / 500wtq
Built, not bought.

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#59998 - 10/28/04 10:19 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
mastrcobb Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 665
um...it's all in this thread
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wtf is wrong with your head? that's like asking "if i get shot in the heart with a .357, will i die any more than getting shot with a .44?"
- jsmonet

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#59999 - 10/29/04 12:02 AM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
Euphoricuck Offline
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Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan
the .48 exh a/r vs the .63 exh a/r

.48 spools slightly earlier but will make less power(depite what cliff posted) and in some cases the .48 dies off up top (if you are revving particularly high say 8500+)

i like the .63 personally over the .48 a/r. the .63 still spools decently and still makes boost at the same rpm as the .48..just not quite as much but thats no big deal to me . Id rather have the more top end. and its not like the .48 is going to make it have screw blower response in the low revs. Mine was .82 a/r but since it was BB is spooled like a .63 a/r. Some boost by 3500 and Full boost at 5000 rpm on my stock 1.6.

Heres a pic showing an example of basically how the torque curves would look like with the .48 and .63. edit: trying to find it






ITS TOTALLY UP TO YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so stfu already with the million posts and pick one

its also harder to hook up downlow
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#60000 - 10/29/04 09:12 AM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
mastrcobb Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 09/19/02
Posts: 665
Quote:

Mine was .82 a/r but since it was BB is spooled like a .63 a/r





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wtf is wrong with your head? that's like asking "if i get shot in the heart with a .357, will i die any more than getting shot with a .44?"
- jsmonet

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#60001 - 10/29/04 09:34 AM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
cliff st-clair Offline
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Registered: 01/03/00
Posts: 6376
Loc: Queens Village, NY
Quote:

the .48 exh a/r vs the .63 exh a/r

.48 spools slightly earlier but will make less power(depite what cliff posted) and in some cases the .48 dies off up top (if you are revving particularly high say 8500+)




Yeah I agree, it will probably die off if you rev past 8500, but Ex isn't planning to rev that high is he?


Quote:

I like the .63 personally over the .48 a/r. the .63 still spools decently and still makes boost at the same rpm as the .48..just not quite as much but thats no big deal to me . Id rather have the more top end.




If you aren't going to rev past 9000rpms I doubt you will notice a top end difference. But if you're fully spooled at 4500rpms instead of 5500rpms you will notice it.




Quote:

I and its not like the .48 is going to make it have screw blower response in the low revs. Mine was .82 a/r but since it was BB is spooled like a .63 a/r. Some boost by 3500 and Full boost at 5000 rpm on my stock 1.6.




I would have loved to see that graph. Not that I don't believe you, but if you've seen my graph, Gab's graph and countless others, you'd know that smaller turbos than yours are spooling later. What manifold were you using?








Quote:

its also harder to hook up downlow




I used to agree with that, until I actually went to the track. It's hard to hook up when the boost builds up too slow. YOu can't really feather the gas because if you do, there's no boost at all. If it were a more responsive turbo it would be easier. Cars like srt4s or 1.8ts for example, seem to have little problem posting some good 60' and 1/8 mile times for their power levels, even though they're fwd like us. It's mostly because their stock turbos spool so early. With turbo Hondas you see the 14.0 @110mph too often., because most guys don't spool until 5000rpms+.
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#60002 - 10/29/04 01:38 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
SiAdam Moderator Offline
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Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 19262
Loc: West By God Virginia
Quote:

um...it's all in this thread




I have been looking for the "why". Not so much, "buy this one". I want to understand why I should buy x turbo...
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05 Berlina Black S2000 700whp / 500wtq
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#60003 - 10/29/04 03:45 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
m_soares Offline
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Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 1505
Loc: Bay Area, CA
This is some confusing shit you guys are talking about...
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#60004 - 10/29/04 04:14 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
Euphoricuck Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan
there is apower difference between the 2. theres no arguing that. the .63 will put out more power.

as for mine.
i was using an inline pro manifold.
full boost @5k on b16. i shit you not. and it had some decent mid range since it was making some boost by 3500 rpm


garrett gtr stuff is wonderful.

as for hooking down low..yes it is harder.
you see guys runnign decent times cause half the honda owners cant drive worth a shit. your comparing crappy honda times to decent vw's times.. not all the vw's and srt's do so well, not to mention the srt has an lsd(well does now) and equal length drive shafts which help quite a bit with wheel hop and hooking up.

when i was untuned i ran 14.1 @98 mph wheel hopping through first gear. if my turbo spool earlier i wouldve just sat there doing a burnout

if you can hook up then it would be alright..but if you can hook up you might aswell go for the more power

i couldnt find that damn graph..sorry.

anyways..its completely up to you and what you wan ex. .48 will spool somewhat earlier while the .63 will provide more hp and torque from say 6k and onwards.

either one is better then NONE



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#60005 - 10/29/04 04:26 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
SiAdam Moderator Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 19262
Loc: West By God Virginia
Quote:


either one is better then NONE





This is very true....


I will post some various "eBay specials" and see what you think for comparison....

Sidenote: If I grabbed a set of type R springs/retainers, would that allow me to rev to 9k? Keeping my Si valves/cams, assuming the turbo can feed it until there...

Btw....I want to say thanks yet again for those who have stayed tuned to this thread and provided great info. If we lived closer I would meet up to shake your hand....
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05 Berlina Black S2000 700whp / 500wtq
Built, not bought.

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#60006 - 10/29/04 05:25 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
SiAdam Moderator Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 19262
Loc: West By God Virginia
This turbo keeps popping up....

Precision Sc-3134e

Here are the specs from there Website :

545 (max hp rating)
SC-3431E (model #)
56mm (wheel diam)
2.230" (wheel inducer)
2.950" (wheel exducer)
57 (trim)
3" (To4E inlet/outlet)
360 "(bearing system)
.48 (a/r ratio)
T31 (turbine specs/wheel style)
2.559" (wheel inducer)
2.228" (wheel exducer)

A couple of things I don't understand are:

The wheel trim # ??
The a/r ratio. What is this the ratio of?
The smaller the # the faster it spools but the less h/p it makes?

Thanks...
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05 Berlina Black S2000 700whp / 500wtq
Built, not bought.

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#60007 - 10/29/04 06:06 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
Euphoricuck Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan
I took my stock Si valvetrain to 9k many times..but to be ont eh safer side.. itr intake springs is all you need.
take your Si intake and put them on your exhaust.. then take itr intake and put them on your intake..
the retainers are the same on the itr, si and gsr iirc.

i would really just buy a turbo from a reputable person here(like pensacola) or h-t !!!

as for what you dont understand.

Compressor A/R is determined by dividing the radius of the compressor housing by the smallest diameter of the compressor outlet . Exhaust housing A/R is determined by dividing the radius of the exhaust by the smallest diameter of the exhaust inlet . As the A/R numerically increases so does the housings ability to induce/exduce a specific volume of air. Lag and effective power range will also be affected by A/R changes. Look at the A/R pic below.

http://wwwrsphysse.anu.edu.au/~amh110/all_gifs/Turbo%20page%20gifs/trim%20ratio


formula for determining comp TRIM
[(minor wheel diameter)x(minor wheel diameter) / (major wheel diameter)x (major wheel diameter) ] x 100= trim

T04E 60
[(2.290)(2.290)/(2.950)(2.950)] x 100= trim
(5.2441/8.7025) x 100= trim
.6026 x 100 = trim
60= trim




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



flip that to determine turbine wheel trim


[(exducer)(exducer)/(inducer)(inducer)]x100 = turbine wheel trim


some wheel specs if you want to practice math

http://64.225.76.178/catalog/comp_wheels.html - compressor sides
http://64.225.76.178/catalog/twheel.html - turbine side
http://64.225.76.178/catalog/thousing.html - turbine side


dont over complicate shit!!!


trim relates to comp map. diff trims have diff maps but all the ones in question are similar however the bigger the turbo the more itll flow(even at low boost)

and a/r..simple explanation is.
the smaller it is..the quicker itll spool, however it wont give as much power as the bigger number will since it cant quite flow as much.






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#60008 - 10/29/04 07:37 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
SiAdam Moderator Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 19262
Loc: West By God Virginia
Quote:

dont over complicate shit!!!




Yea...I have a bad habit of doing that...


Anyway...That was exactly what I was looking for. Reasons explaining why...

Helps out tremendously. Very much Appreciated.

So...(hypothetically) what if you had let's say a sc34 vs a sc61

The 34 was a .63 and the 61 was a .48

Would there be a difference.....?
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05 Berlina Black S2000 700whp / 500wtq
Built, not bought.

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#60009 - 10/29/04 10:36 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
Night Offline
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Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 2833
Loc: houston, TX
try that --> http://www.beesandgoats.com/boostfaq/g2icturbo.html
turbo part is about a 1/3 down.
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#60010 - 10/30/04 12:42 AM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
SiAdam Moderator Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 19262
Loc: West By God Virginia
Quote:

try that --> http://www.beesandgoats.com/boostfaq/g2icturbo.html
turbo part is about a 1/3 down.




Great Find....That is definatly needs to be a sticky!!!!
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05 Berlina Black S2000 700whp / 500wtq
Built, not bought.

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#60011 - 10/30/04 11:39 AM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
Euphoricuck Offline
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Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan
i was gonna say..there is a difference between turbos!

yes it would be different. im not sure how each would act since i dont have any experience with them like that nor have I read anything about it although im sure its around somewhere. but YES it would be slightly different.

from what i have read too, most recommend the .63 with the sc61. if you wanna read more about it, there are a million posts about it on h-t. just use the search function.tonnes-o reading..just make sure you can distinguish between the right info and wrong

sc34 is a 57 trim to4e comp wheel while the sc61 has a NEW GT40 comp wheel..puts out more power and is more efficient.



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#60012 - 10/30/04 11:46 AM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
ShaneSestito Offline
Jr Member


Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 403
Quote:

exduce




errr, i think there are words to describe the opposite of induce, like expel, belch, blow out, cast out, discharge, disgorge, dislodge, drive out, ejaculate, eruct, erupt, evacuate, exhaust, exudate, exude , irrupt, pass, remove, spew, throw out.

Allthough, exude is most often used with intangible ideas.


On a side note, small exhuast sides, overboosted rock!
I am a big fan of the overboosted Greddy Kits. If i were in your shoes, i would pick up a t25 (same flange as yours right?) and use the extra cash towards tuning/better cartrige.

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#60013 - 10/30/04 02:44 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo?
SiAdam Moderator Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/22/01
Posts: 19262
Loc: West By God Virginia
I have been spending alot of time on H-t anyway. I am very interested in the idea of swapping my valve springs so I can rev to 9k.....

Side note....a t25 won't work with the manifold I have. It only accpets Dsm turbo's. 13g,14b, 16g, etc... I would be wasting my time with a t25 anyway....upper rpms...it would die out.....
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#9189954 - 11/17/17 08:55 AM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo? [Re: ]
chenlixiang Offline
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#9235994 - 01/21/18 09:18 PM Re: Blah Blah Blah....what turbo? [Re: chenlixiang]
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