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#4352061 - 12/18/09 09:32 AM Gm to close saab...
NOT spotch... Offline
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Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 57149
\:o



This fucking sucks \:\(

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/19/business/global/19saab.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=print

December 19, 2009
G.M. Plans to Close Saab After Talks Collapse
By NELSON D. SCHWARTZ

Unable to find a buyer for Saab after a year-long search, General Motors said Friday that it would begin shutting down operations at the Swedish carmaker.

G.M. had been in final sales negotiations with a Dutch maker of high-end sports cars, Spyker Cars, but issues arose during the due diligence process that made the sale impossible before G.M.’s Jan. 1 deadline, the company said in a statement.

“Despite the best efforts of all involved, it has become very clear that the due diligence required to complete this complex transaction could not be executed in a reasonable time,” the president of G.M. Europe, Nick Reilly, said.

“We regret that we were not able to complete this transaction with Spyker Cars,” Mr. Reilly said. “We will work closely with the Saab organization to wind down the business in an orderly and responsible manner.”

Saab will continue to honor warranties, while providing service and spare parts to current Saab owners around the world, G.M. said. Mr. Reilly said that the move was not a bankruptcy or forced liquidation, so he expected Saab to pay its debts, including those of suppliers.

But with a narrow, though loyal, customer base focused on Sweden, Britain and the American Northeast, Saab has proved too small to lure the world’s big automakers, many of which are seeking tie-ups to increase economies of scale.

Earlier this month, the Beijing Automotive Industry Holding Company struck a deal for the right to produce versions of the older 9-5 and 9-3 models in China.

In late November, the Swedish sports carmaker, Koenigsegg, backed out of the deal to buy the unit. It was the third time in less than two months that a sale of a G.M. brand has been called off, reflecting the difficulty of selling underperforming divisions in the midst of a global sales slump.

In early November, G.M. also backed out of a deal to sell its European operations, Opel, to a Canadian parts supplier and Russian bank. And in September, G.M. announced that the Saturn brand and dealerships would close after Penske Automotive terminated its deal to buy the carmaker.

G.M. still has a tentative deal to sell Hummer to a Chinese industrial machinery manufacturer.

Saab, which filed for bankruptcy protection in Sweden in February, has been a perennial money-loser and is among G.M.’s smallest brands, with sales of 93,000 vehicles worldwide last year.

It is on pace to sell fewer than 10,000 vehicles in the United States this year.

G.M. paid $600 million for half of Saab in 1990 and $125 million for the rest in 2000. Terms of the deal with Koenigsegg have not been revealed, but it was contingent on $600 million of financing from the European Investment Bank and Swedish government guarantees.

Saab, which originally made fighter planes, began to make cars after World War II in an effort to branch out.
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#4352163 - 12/18/09 10:08 AM Re: Gm to close saab... [Re: ]
fellfrosch7 Offline
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Registered: 12/17/01
Posts: 2552
Loc: Las Vegas
Wow, first Hummer, now Saab... both will be made in China. Awesome. \:\(
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#4352450 - 12/18/09 11:32 AM Re: Gm to close saab... [Re: fellfrosch7]
hustler Offline
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Registered: 01/09/00
Posts: 6095
Loc: Seattle, WA
My guess is they will produce these brands for the Chinese only. Chinese automakers have been perceived as the modern 80's American car quality makers. Junk. China is too busy cutting corners for profit, too much corruption, no oversight environmentally or for safety. I watched a few crash tests of Chinese cars on youtube and its just baffling that they produce this junk when they have had the access to steal automotive technology for decades.

GM and Ford are responsible for sinking some of these European brands, but Daimler did the same thing to Chrysler. Basically raped it, then dumped it on the side of the street. It's a competitive industry and thats just how it works. IMO Saab should have stuck with planes anyway.

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#4352667 - 12/18/09 12:52 PM Re: Gm to close saab... [Re: ]
progressi Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 9133
I thought the Chinese were just buying technology and manufacturing equipment,but not the rights.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/12/18/breaking-swedish-patient-succumbs-deal-for-saab-is-dead-on-th/

It sucks,but I think with all the money invested in models that never made it to market,there's a tiny glimmer of hope that they'll revive the brand. It's doubtful though. \:\(

Where's Craig? I wonder if the SAAB forums are exploding right now.

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#4353349 - 12/18/09 03:59 PM Re: Gm to close saab... [Re: progressi]
CommonGutterTrash Offline
This user is more useless than a half-baked compost pile.
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Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 6437
Loc: Boston MA
I'm sure they are, but the idea that I can soon pick up chinese spare parts without US re-brand mark-ups is awesome.
Imagine getting the SAME chinese part without GM quarupling the price.
SCORE! at least there will be some honesty in what you expect, and what you get.

As I've said before, Saab died in 2006. (to me)
When they stopped using saab engines, and unique chassis, it just became a re-badged GM/opal/vauxhall with parts-bin upgrades.

The chassis was good. Hell, the 9-5 chassis is amazing, but it just lost all the "flair" that made it a saab, back in '03, really.

the people that will be affected the most are the people with leases, or CPO, or brand new cars with warranties, and people who JUST purchased 09, and '10 cars at full-price. the re-sale will plummet even FASTER.
people like me that are happy to be 2nd-owners on the cars will cash-in.

FWIW, once the name is completely dead, and GM no longer "owns" it... I'm sure(hoping?) someone will ressurect it. hopefully, it'll be with the same ideals the original group had.
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2000 9-5 Gary Fisher Wagon
1995 850 T-5R
1996 Galant

AIM = gclipse96

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#4353485 - 12/18/09 04:33 PM Re: Gm to close saab... [Re: CommonGutterTrash]
NOT spotch... Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 57149
I like your sunny outlook, and I hope you're right.
_________________________
"On the street where there is no lap timer, feel is all that matters" - scootergeek
"A bunch of nerdy douchebags chasing a ghost." -Ob1 on bitcoin

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#4353558 - 12/18/09 04:57 PM Re: Gm to close saab... [Re: NOT spotch...]
Impulsive Offline
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Registered: 11/28/99
Posts: 79878
Loc: Edmonton
I don't think Saab was ever just a rebadging other than the 9-7.

 Quote:
The 9-3 and the Opel Vectra were the first of the global GM Epsilon platform, which was then lengthened to accommodate four new cousins, the Chevrolet Malibu/Malibu Maxx, the Pontiac G6, and the Saturn Aura. Even so, this platform was heavily re-engineered by SAAB, making it 60% exclusive[citation needed] and rendering it impossible to build outside its Trollhättan plant[citation needed]. A proprietary fiber-optic electric/electronic system, the possibility of AWD (exploited from 2008 on, dubbed Saab XWD), and ReAxs as described above, are just a few of the features exclusive to the 9-3.



I thought the engines and interiors, while not class leading, stayed pretty true to Saab. The issue with Saab was always that they priced themselves alongside BMW's, Infiniti's, Mercedes, Audi yet couldn't really touch them in terms of an overall product. The 9-5 looked to fix this, but it's too late.

I personally think GM could take Saab to another level if they managed it ans built it as a true Euro car competitive with the Volvo's, BMW's, Audi's of the world.
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#4356711 - 12/20/09 01:50 AM Re: Gm to close saab... [Re: CommonGutterTrash]
theraven Offline
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Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 283
 Originally Posted By: g96nt

As I've said before, Saab died in 2006. (to me)
When they stopped using saab engines, and unique chassis, it just became a re-badged GM/opal/vauxhall with parts-bin upgrades.

Saab was already on death's door when GM stepped in, they just prolonged the agony. Saab had a dedicated fanbase of people, but that wasn't enough to make them profitable even before GM stepped in. There were really only two ways for them to go: One was to contract and focus on just a few core products, and the other was to unite with a larger brand with deeper pockets and technology to share.

I am not saying there was no way they could have been successful, or that I think GM handled them perfectly. I just think it would have been difficult for Saab to survive in any case. Competition has become even more fierce in recent years for the price-range and class they compete in. Being quirky just isn't good enough.

Still is sad any time a brand with that sort of history goes under though. I would have liked to see what their next gen of products would have looked like since GM has done a pretty good job across the board with their recent product launches.

 Quote:

FWIW, once the name is completely dead, and GM no longer "owns" it... I'm sure(hoping?) someone will ressurect it. hopefully, it'll be with the same ideals the original group had.

That would seem like the logical way for them to come back, if they ever do.

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#4356866 - 12/20/09 09:14 AM Re: Gm to close saab... [Re: Impulsive]
CommonGutterTrash Offline
This user is more useless than a half-baked compost pile.
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Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 6437
Loc: Boston MA
 Originally Posted By: Impulsive
I don't think Saab was ever just a rebadging other than the 9-7.

 Quote:
The 9-3 and the Opel Vectra were the first of the global GM Epsilon platform, which was then lengthened to accommodate four new cousins, the Chevrolet Malibu/Malibu Maxx, the Pontiac G6, and the Saturn Aura. Even so, this platform was heavily re-engineered by SAAB, making it 60% exclusive[citation needed] and rendering it impossible to build outside its Trollhättan plant[citation needed]. A proprietary fiber-optic electric/electronic system, the possibility of AWD (exploited from 2008 on, dubbed Saab XWD), and ReAxs as described above, are just a few of the features exclusive to the 9-3.



I thought the engines and interiors, while not class leading, stayed pretty true to Saab. The issue with Saab was always that they priced themselves alongside BMW's, Infiniti's, Mercedes, Audi yet couldn't really touch them in terms of an overall product. The 9-5 looked to fix this, but it's too late.

I personally think GM could take Saab to another level if they managed it ans built it as a true Euro car competitive with the Volvo's, BMW's, Audi's of the world.


originally, the 9000 was a joint-venture, from the early 80's
I forget the trio, but I know it was saab, and alfa, and a 3rd.
I have no problem with that kind of project, just like the PRV motor, and other things. like the ford/yamaha programs.

the problem was, that in 1994, gm/saab decided to take this car, amd just give it a facelift, and call it a saab:

the sad thing, is that it was already a 6-year old car at the time.

The chassis was crap, it was floppy, it didn't handle well, and to "refine" it, they just laid-down a ton of sound-deadener. My $36k car from 1999, has a twist-beam rear-end. that is HARDLY refinement. It was the beginning of the end, really. the NG900 came with a trouble-plagued 2.5Lv6 that was known to toss t-belts in 30k miles, and an oil cooler that was known to implode. hatches that leaked, firewalls that cracked on RHD cars, and a list of issues that NEVER existed before. none of them were addressed, until 2003, when the SS came out, which, again, was just a re-hash of another car.
granted, it was much-improved over the 94-02 cars, and a step in the right direction, it's not unique, as saab/volvo/jaguar etc once had been.

The 9-5 was as much of a unique car as they had, but it platform-shared with Saturn, and a a couple others. It just wasn't the same. it was arguably one of their best platforms/sellers, but it remained virtually un-touched from 1998 till 2010, aside from a facelift, really.
Just like ANYONE will tell you, their volvo, and jags are just re-hashed taurai, and focii(?)

Saab wasn't designing cars, they were re-designing opels.
I have no nubers to back it up, but I remember reading once, that the 900 was the best-selling 'vert for a couple years, and that Saab's numbers WERE increasing when GM purchased them. (with a miniscule dealership network)

here's some numbers, actually.
Unfortunately, it stops at 1999, but it DOES show that saab's numbers were increasing until 1999, when GM went from 50% owner, to 100% owners:
http://www.saabsunited.com/2009/06/saab-the-saab-scania-era-vs-the-gm-era.html
(pretty good read, actually)

GM really just let the company die. They were so interested in making 4 of the same cars/trucks/SUVs over here, that they forgot to engineer a single good car over there. Really, the best engineered cars are NOT coming from Asia, or N.A., They're coming from Europe. Japan has a V6+leather+nav+17's formula for lexus/infinity/acura, Which isn't really an engineering feat, and US just has a "bigger is better" formula. Japan DOES have the hybrid market now, but europe has been getting 50-60mpg from diesels since 1984. Japan is just trying to get mpg, AND get americans their V6's

In conclusion;
Fuck GM.
Thank you, and goodnight.
_________________________
Craig R.
2000 9-5 Gary Fisher Wagon
1995 850 T-5R
1996 Galant

AIM = gclipse96

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#4356874 - 12/20/09 09:21 AM Re: Gm to close saab... [Re: CommonGutterTrash]
CommonGutterTrash Offline
This user is more useless than a half-baked compost pile.
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Posts: 6437
Loc: Boston MA
good ol' wiki
the 9000 was also the fiat croma:

lancia thema

and scott's love... the alfa 164:
_________________________
Craig R.
2000 9-5 Gary Fisher Wagon
1995 850 T-5R
1996 Galant

AIM = gclipse96

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#4356877 - 12/20/09 09:23 AM Re: Gm to close saab... [Re: CommonGutterTrash]
NOT spotch... Offline
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Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 57149
 Quote:
GM really just let the company die. They were so interested in making 4 of the same cars/trucks/SUVs over here, that they forgot to engineer a single good car over there.


You mean kind of like what they did with Saturn lol "Hey, let's just let the SC series go for a decade, just to see how many sales we can get on a 10 year old car that was actually halfway decent the first few years".
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#4361694 - 12/21/09 05:36 PM Re: Gm to close saab... [Re: CommonGutterTrash]
scootergeek Offline
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Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 46248
Loc: East of St. Louis
 Originally Posted By: g96nt
good ol' wiki
the 9000 was also the fiat croma:

lancia thema

and scott's love... the alfa 164:


The Alfa was styled by Pininfarina and was the only one to have their own design for the doors. The Lancia Thema 8.32 had a Ferrari V8.

cheers,
scott
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#8978870 - 03/20/17 10:00 PM Re: Gm to close saab... [Re: scootergeek]
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