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#9779429 - 04/09/20 08:18 AM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: Risky Business]
c2k Moderator Offline
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well.. I say the developers in downtown toronto are going to take advantage of this. construction running 24/7

https://www.blogto.com/city/2020/04/cons...e-24-hours-day/
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#9779471 - 04/09/20 08:50 AM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: c2k]
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I don't think it applies to developers of residential real estate, cops are already driving around looking to hand out 25k fines.
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#9779473 - 04/09/20 08:51 AM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: Risky Business]
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Pulled data on a popular AirBnB condo, looks like listings for new leases are starting to spike: 12 York


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#9779572 - 04/09/20 10:03 AM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: Risky Business]
87ZCSi Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Risky Business
 Originally Posted By: 87ZCSi
 Originally Posted By: Risky Business
How does it work?

Let's say 50k down to broker held in escrow or with lawyer, buyer is unable to close due to x,y,z. Transaction falls apart, now deposit should technically belong to seller.

You don't agree to mutual release so then does it go to court, seller is defendant? Do you have to prove damages?

Why can't you sell the house to someone else in the meantime, I don't think the house is tied up as the deposit is a claim on the buyer not the seller, so no possibility of lien that I can think of.

This happened to me and I had to negotiate how much of the deposit I would retain unless I wanted to go to court. I was allowed to put the house on the market AFTER they didn't close then establish damages then ask them to release a certain amount. In my case, I got $7500 towards interest, taxes, lawn maintenance, and selling it for slightly less the second time.


Ok so that makes a big difference, you WERE allowed to list, but they had to breach contract first (not abide by closing date). That was my understanding.

I was confused because hator said the house is tied up even after for up to a year, which I don't understand why it would be. Either way maybe I am not understanding something...

How you're understanding what I'm saying is correct as I recall it. I am not sure that it was tied up after the breach because the sister of the person who breached contract (different last name) bought the house (conditional) to try to allow her sister the time to get the money to buy the house and redeem the original sale. The original purchaser continued to not be able to get the money and so the sister didn't clear conditions. If it was tied up after breach the sister wouldn't have gotten involved. Of course, this is my only experience with this as I was just following my lawyers advice the entire time. My agent was useless. I also remember knowing a week ahead of time (after having already started bridge loan and closing on new property) that it would breach but not being able to do anything about it, just wait it out.

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#9779659 - 04/09/20 10:36 AM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: 87ZCSi]
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I talked to a lawyer that specializes in this stuff earlier today, he said it's pretty easy to enforce forfeiture of deposit and for seller to get the deposit money if buyer breaches contract.

The buyer *could* try and stall the re-listing of the house, but this is very rare and risky because they open themselves up to additional liability if the seller sells at less than what the house was contracted for. Also the sellers lawyer can remove the claim on the home with a visit to the court house and relist right away. It comes down to how the APS was drafted and the conditions, it's generally stacked in the sellers benefit.

In real estate there appears to be a lot of misinformation, you have to root cause everything it seems.

Buyers/Sellers beware.

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#9779990 - 04/09/20 01:14 PM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: Risky Business]
87ZCSi Offline
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I was told that for ME, the money was mine when the deal closed so there was no way to release it legally without their consent I need to sue or agree on a split. The bigger buyer beware that I learned in this isn't who gets the deposit and when but is to make sure the deposit is BIG ENOUGH to cover all damages. Mine was 10k on a 500k+ property which could easily have not been enough had the market shifted, and that's totally on my agent.
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#9780397 - 04/09/20 05:49 PM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: 87ZCSi]
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From what the lawyer I spoke to he told me that 90%+ of problems is the agent poorly advising their client/overstepping their role as an agent/trying to give legal advice. Part of problem is not fully understanding the pre printed legalese on the forms themselves. I guess that makes sense.

There is a point in time you are supposed to hand off the transaction to the lawyer who knows better, but the agent is in a spot where he/she wants to provide value and it's a bit of a dichotomy. I can see both perspectives, but from what I was told a lot of clients get overexposed from shitty advice.

I am learning as I am going, but the more I learn the more I realize the amount of conflicting opinions depending on who you ask.

The TREB MLS database is another shitshow, learning to pull data is some 1982 shit and it's filled with mistakes, double entries, etc. Trying to pull any analysis is like pulling teeth with the system.


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#9780865 - 04/10/20 10:22 AM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: Risky Business]
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Yep, it's happening.



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#9780910 - 04/10/20 10:59 AM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: Risky Business]
Senor Eduardo_82 Offline
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Is there any way, through a site like Bungol or HouseSigma, to find out if a deal closes or not? Like it shows all the listing info and sold info, but I don't see the closing info anywhere.

I only ask because the most expensive place in my neighbourhood sold a few weeks ago, and I'm wondering if it's going to close or not.

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#9780919 - 04/10/20 11:06 AM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: Senor Eduardo_82]
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That's the equivalent of predicting the future lol

If it's on bungol/housesigma I am assuming it's sold and conditions have been met, now you have to wait for the closing date and see if ownership transfer takes place to confirm successful close. That's my understanding of it.

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#9781146 - 04/10/20 02:22 PM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: Risky Business]
Hatorade Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Risky Business
From what the lawyer I spoke to he told me that 90%+ of problems is the agent poorly advising their client/overstepping their role as an agent/trying to give legal advice. Part of problem is not fully understanding the pre printed legalese on the forms themselves. I guess that makes sense.

There is a point in time you are supposed to hand off the transaction to the lawyer who knows better, but the agent is in a spot where he/she wants to provide value and it's a bit of a dichotomy. I can see both perspectives, but from what I was told a lot of clients get overexposed from shitty advice.

I am learning as I am going, but the more I learn the more I realize the amount of conflicting opinions depending on who you ask.

The TREB MLS database is another shitshow, learning to pull data is some 1982 shit and it's filled with mistakes, double entries, etc. Trying to pull any analysis is like pulling teeth with the system.



There are tons of agents playing mortgage broker and lawyer that have zero clue on wtf they are talking about and absolutely no reason to get involved.

Just like how the whole deposit scenario above that Wes clarified. Learning everyday, but I never give advice when it comes to such things as you don't want to be liable for wrong info and also shouldn't be involved to begin with.
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#9781244 - 04/10/20 04:44 PM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: Hatorade]
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Yea best to not overstep and get in shit later, I guess some people just feel they know everything.

FYI, saw these starting to pop up, Covid 19 circumstance clauses making all current "Sales" a bit easier to walk away from or at least protect the buyer in case fuckery.


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#9781364 - 04/10/20 08:14 PM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: Risky Business]
IntenseDak Offline
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I can add some anecdotal color here as I listed a 1-bed condo for sale in the Queen West / Dufferin area on March 10th. The local area (east side of Dufferin, West queen West) had been scorching hot all of 2020 and while I had planned to sell this summer, I figured I'd test the market and see if these early spring bidding wars would push the value beyond what I was ever expecting.

Showings were being booked about 7-10 per day for the first 2 days. Night of Thursday the 12th, Rudy Gobert's positive diagnosis shuts down the NBA. I know I'm screwed. By Friday the word is buzzing around Ontario, and many people realize the quarantine is coming. We had a few showings that weekend. We planned to hold offers on Monday the 16th. We postpone to the 18th to get a few more people through. We end up with 2 offers on the 18th, 1 at asking (Waste of time) and the second was a workable offer. Luckily for me, this buyer had tried and lost on 4-5 condos in the immediate area, and a few had sold for silly prices (700+ for 600 ft and parking) so he appeared to at least be content to pick mine up for a "discount". He had 3 days to review the status cert, and somehow, didn't back out and we went firm on the 23rd. We were able to reach a price that was about 20g shy of where I thought it would have landed, and I accepted as I anticipated the market was going to be put into a tailspin.

I figure I was a week short of selling at an all time high, but very lucky to walk out with a price well above what I was ever hoping for.

50k deposit in trust, hope it works out. They agreed to close in August as that's when my tenants lease was up. Having showings with her living in there during the early Covid-19 days was intense. Luckily she agreed to let people in.

Based on a quick look around bungol, a few condos in the area have sold in the last week and they appear about 30-40g short of what I would have expected in early March. So on 700k we are talking a 5% correction in a matter of 2 weeks.

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#9781375 - 04/10/20 09:08 PM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: Risky Business]
A2B-Lexus Offline
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Sorry to circle back. HELOC definitely could work but just being lazy to deal with a tenant, it never materialized. The way the prices are in the last few years, it almost makes more sense to buy a 2nd house to rent as condo prices before were ape shit crazy.

Probably going to go with cash in hand and eventually put it in the market once things look rock bottom.

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#9781470 - 04/11/20 05:23 AM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: IntenseDak]
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 Originally Posted By: IntenseDak
I can add some anecdotal color here as I listed a 1-bed condo for sale in the Queen West / Dufferin area on March 10th. The local area (east side of Dufferin, West queen West) had been scorching hot all of 2020 and while I had planned to sell this summer, I figured I'd test the market and see if these early spring bidding wars would push the value beyond what I was ever expecting.

Showings were being booked about 7-10 per day for the first 2 days. Night of Thursday the 12th, Rudy Gobert's positive diagnosis shuts down the NBA. I know I'm screwed. By Friday the word is buzzing around Ontario, and many people realize the quarantine is coming. We had a few showings that weekend. We planned to hold offers on Monday the 16th. We postpone to the 18th to get a few more people through. We end up with 2 offers on the 18th, 1 at asking (Waste of time) and the second was a workable offer. Luckily for me, this buyer had tried and lost on 4-5 condos in the immediate area, and a few had sold for silly prices (700+ for 600 ft and parking) so he appeared to at least be content to pick mine up for a "discount". He had 3 days to review the status cert, and somehow, didn't back out and we went firm on the 23rd. We were able to reach a price that was about 20g shy of where I thought it would have landed, and I accepted as I anticipated the market was going to be put into a tailspin.

I figure I was a week short of selling at an all time high, but very lucky to walk out with a price well above what I was ever hoping for.

50k deposit in trust, hope it works out. They agreed to close in August as that's when my tenants lease was up. Having showings with her living in there during the early Covid-19 days was intense. Luckily she agreed to let people in.

Based on a quick look around bungol, a few condos in the area have sold in the last week and they appear about 30-40g short of what I would have expected in early March. So on 700k we are talking a 5% correction in a matter of 2 weeks.



You got very lucky for two reasons.

1. You sold at the *perfect* time in relation to this crisis, yes a week or two would've been ideal, but you dodged a big bullet here. Effectively you got top dollar.

2. Deal doesn't close, you just made 50k \:\)

Keep me posted if you encounter any issues with the closing as it's far away, trying to see how people behave throughout this. Things should start returning back to normal, the only concern would be is if the person paid 700k for example and comps are sitting at 600k or less in August it would be hard to justify going through. They might walk away from the deposit.

Hopefully it works out for you, I will keep posting info on condo prices for that area to see how it's trending.


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#9781471 - 04/11/20 05:27 AM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: A2B-Lexus]
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 Originally Posted By: A2B-Lexus
Sorry to circle back. HELOC definitely could work but just being lazy to deal with a tenant, it never materialized. The way the prices are in the last few years, it almost makes more sense to buy a 2nd house to rent as condo prices before were ape shit crazy.

Probably going to go with cash in hand and eventually put it in the market once things look rock bottom.


I was looking for an income property on/off for a while and in early 2020 I made the conclusion there are no cash flow positive properties left, except a few very small exceptions.

Condos have been long done as an "investment". Things have drastically changed especially in the last 5 years. The days where you used to buy a condo at 10% below market and it appreciates over the years it's built is now the other way around...you pay 10% over market for something not built Realtors have been really creative at spinning this as a good thing. When you have a bull market and *everyone* appears to be making money people buy into it. Doesn't help that the GTA market has been extremely resilient to almost all negative pressure.

Even at today's prices I've found a few very niche pockets where you can still find some properties that are cash flow positive and still have appreciation room, all of these are detached though ($1M+) and require property management. Not as easy as a condo, but we still have examples that are financially logical unlike 99% of shit.

Then there are the regular properties no one wants, but still can pull down great money if you can sit on them. Looked at a detached at Church/Bloor where a murder happened, that one was a gem, but it got scooped up by someone with deep pockets...also need more than a mil there ha (clubsi equity investment anyone? ;\) )

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#9781537 - 04/11/20 10:27 AM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: Risky Business]
c2k Moderator Offline
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This has been far a much helpful thread than any other investment/real state discussion online. Although I do have questions with regards to the down-spin of the real state sales as of late, how many mortgage brokerage businesses will be affected? How many will or could survive through the COVID-19? How many will cease to operate due to the lack of sales? Do you have access to the mortgage sales data?
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#9781540 - 04/11/20 10:35 AM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: c2k]
LNXGUY Moderator Offline
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I'm glad I got into my place before all the craziness really started to go down. Although finding buddies to help me move on the 30th is going to be a pain in the ass
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#9781554 - 04/11/20 11:10 AM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: Risky Business]
IntenseDak Offline
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Registered: 04/28/01
Posts: 1146
Loc: Oakville Ontario
 Originally Posted By: Risky Business



You got very lucky for two reasons.

1. You sold at the *perfect* time in relation to this crisis, yes a week or two would've been ideal, but you dodged a big bullet here. Effectively you got top dollar.

2. Deal doesn't close, you just made 50k \:\)

Keep me posted if you encounter any issues with the closing as it's far away, trying to see how people behave throughout this. Things should start returning back to normal, the only concern would be is if the person paid 700k for example and comps are sitting at 600k or less in August it would be hard to justify going through. They might walk away from the deposit.

Hopefully it works out for you, I will keep posting info on condo prices for that area to see how it's trending.



re: item 1, ya as the weeks pass I feel better and better about the decision. I had been expecting 5-10 offers so even by the 18th the demand was pulling back. We felt like given how crazy things were, we might have reached 670-680k but ended up selling for 650k. Keep in mind this is a 570sq ft unit (it looks like a 600ft+ unit because it has a perfect layout without wasted space). Its definitely top of the market per foot for the area.

re: item 2, you read my mind. part of me wonders if I'd prefer the 50k and hold onto the unit to sell in a few years LOL #greed

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#9781586 - 04/11/20 12:27 PM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: c2k]
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 Originally Posted By: c2k
This has been far a much helpful thread than any other investment/real state discussion online. Although I do have questions with regards to the down-spin of the real state sales as of late, how many mortgage brokerage businesses will be affected? How many will or could survive through the COVID-19? How many will cease to operate due to the lack of sales? Do you have access to the mortgage sales data?


Too early to tell anything in terms of what happens. My personal view started off as this will be pretty bad to now I am starting to think it won't be.

For starters majority of job losses were hourly/min wage workers, I think less than 2.5% of all EI claims were for salaried employees making over 75k. In other words, the typical buyer is so far unaffected by Covid. That's not to say they won't be, but as of right now I think people have a false sense of security. Could be entirely different in a month or two.

As far as mortgage brokers, they are all experiencing a blip now like the real estate industry, but in the end whether the market crashes, sales will happen one way or another, be it distressed sales/desperate sales/bidding wars/whatever happens. The only downside for a mortgage broker is if prices crash so much that mortgage loans are significantly lower as an aggregate amount. The other issue is if less people qualify if lenders become more strict around lending rules and what they consider "safe jobs". At that point someone who had a full time job that's not deemed safe might have to jump through hoops and qualify as self employed as an example. This is just a theory for now.

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#9783487 - 04/14/20 09:45 AM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: Risky Business]
c2k Moderator Offline
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https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/housing-worries-sends-canadian-consumer-confidence-to-new-low-1.1420838

IMO, I think we will start seeing a slow downward trend on the housing market.
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#9786683 - 04/17/20 09:42 AM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: c2k]
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Wrote a new article, looking for that CSI feedback.

https://www.torfeno.com/home/listings-sales-are-down-what-does-it-all-mean

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#9787172 - 04/17/20 02:42 PM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: Risky Business]
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 Quote:
A staggering 7.5 million applications approved for the Canada Emergency Response Program to date. That’s about 37% of the entire labour force!

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#9787710 - 04/18/20 08:25 AM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: Risky Business]
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Here we go, mainlanders cashing out at pretty big losses of their HK properties, spillover coming

 Quote:
About half of mainland Chinese investors are planning to reduce their investments in overseas markets this year, according to Cushman&Wakefield.


https://www.scmp.com/business/article/30...rty-after-china

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#9789549 - 04/20/20 07:09 PM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: Risky Business]
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Noticed my first big real estate hit today in Oakville post covid.

Nice street, 2019 listings all moved around $1M or just over.

List was 1.07M 5 weeks ago in line with home, reduced offer to 995k 2 weeks ago, sold over weekend for 890k. shiiiiiet

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#9789849 - 04/21/20 06:12 AM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: Risky Business]
c2k Moderator Offline
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Registered: 05/21/00
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 Originally Posted By: Risky Business
Noticed my first big real estate hit today in Oakville post covid.

Nice street, 2019 listings all moved around $1M or just over.

List was 1.07M 5 weeks ago in line with home, reduced offer to 995k 2 weeks ago, sold over weekend for 890k. shiiiiiet




Fine by me. Homes are still expensive today, no matter how you spin it. So if home prices are going down, does that mean rent is also going down too?
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#9790092 - 04/21/20 12:04 PM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: Risky Business]
LNXGUY Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/06/00
Posts: 106838
Loc: Barrie, Ont,
 Originally Posted By: Risky Business
Noticed my first big real estate hit today in Oakville post covid.

Nice street, 2019 listings all moved around $1M or just over.

List was 1.07M 5 weeks ago in line with home, reduced offer to 995k 2 weeks ago, sold over weekend for 890k. shiiiiiet


SiRKID BAT SIGNAL!
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'09 E90 335d

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#9790340 - 04/21/20 02:15 PM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: LNXGUY]
Simon_the_Pieman Offline
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Registered: 08/13/01
Posts: 9457
Loc: The A
 Originally Posted By: LNXGUY
 Originally Posted By: Risky Business
Noticed my first big real estate hit today in Oakville post covid.

Nice street, 2019 listings all moved around $1M or just over.

List was 1.07M 5 weeks ago in line with home, reduced offer to 995k 2 weeks ago, sold over weekend for 890k. shiiiiiet



SiRKID BAT SIGNAL!


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#9790528 - 04/21/20 04:21 PM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: c2k]
Risky Business Offline
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Registered: 05/17/10
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 Originally Posted By: c2k
 Originally Posted By: Risky Business
Noticed my first big real estate hit today in Oakville post covid.

Nice street, 2019 listings all moved around $1M or just over.

List was 1.07M 5 weeks ago in line with home, reduced offer to 995k 2 weeks ago, sold over weekend for 890k. shiiiiiet




Fine by me. Homes are still expensive today, no matter how you spin it. So if home prices are going down, does that mean rent is also going down too?


Rent is already going down.

Too early to say that about home prices because there isn't enough data.

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#9790539 - 04/21/20 04:28 PM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: Risky Business]
Risky Business Offline
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Ouch, the examples keep coming in.

Home in Unionville sold for 2.6M in 2017, sold for 2M yesterday.

We definitely seeing shit popping off now. I saw something similar for an EY bungalow last week. Still not enough data, but yea we can see where this is going.

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#9790696 - 04/21/20 07:19 PM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: Risky Business]
Simon_the_Pieman Offline
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Registered: 08/13/01
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eek thts a lot of dough!
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#9790824 - 04/22/20 04:53 AM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: Simon_the_Pieman]
Risky Business Offline
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#9791122 - 04/22/20 12:20 PM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: Risky Business]
Senor Eduardo_82 Offline
miataist
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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 38036
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#9791192 - 04/22/20 01:13 PM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: Senor Eduardo_82]
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Damn, it's scary when it's a *better* type resto and arguably Class A space, at least close to it.

This will be it for all the shitty strip malls for sure, unless tenant/landlord relationships prevail and they work together.

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#9792040 - 04/23/20 11:38 AM Re: I started a blog (real estate) [Re: Risky Business]
SuPeR-MaRiO Offline
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Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 6111
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Anyone aware of a form for landlords where they will somehow be reimbursed for missed rental payments? Not sure that it applies to commercial, but more so for residential.
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