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#5257300 - 12/20/10 09:15 PM Save the Nurburgring
Euphoricuck Offline
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Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan
http://jalopnik.com/5684589/save-the-nurburgring
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#5257909 - 12/21/10 07:29 AM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: Euphoricuck]
A_Mantis Administrator Offline
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Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 22945
Loc: Valley of the Sun
Building a shopping mall, arena, and roller coaster on a racetrack =

The track itself is the attraction, not all the frivolous bullshit. Motorsports enthusiasts go there to drive fast... not shop, watch plays, entertain children, etc. How do they fuck up something so simple? When you try to be everything to everyone, you end up being nothing to nobody.


Seeing the 'Ring being whored out like this makes me sad. \:\(
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#5257949 - 12/21/10 08:13 AM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: A_Mantis]
FCobra94 Offline
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Registered: 10/22/01
Posts: 19689
Loc: MD
 Originally Posted By: psychomantis
When you try to be everything to everyone, you end up being nothing to nobody.

Seeing the 'Ring being whored out like this makes me sad. \:\(

Agreed. Some greedy a$$hole always has to ruin it for everyone else \:\(
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#5258223 - 12/21/10 10:19 AM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: FCobra94]
UglyValiant Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 6364
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
The blurb is bizarrely written (from jaloponik? no!)and leaves more question than answers...

Okay so if someone knows enough:

1. He blames the track predicament on privateers...who seem to be culpable. But were the derisively termed "privateers" scammed themselves by the less than honest book keeping that claimed 2 million visitors? Or were they somehow part of the scam? Was the administrators part of this scam? Short version is "who is responsible for the inflated numbers?"

2. Ostensibly when the writer says "publicly owned," he means gov't owned? The green bay packers are publicly owned, w/ no gov't ownership as are many corporations...but if the Minister of Finance had to resign, this does imply it's gov't, correct?


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#5258980 - 12/21/10 02:47 PM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: Euphoricuck]
NOT spotch... Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 57155
 Originally Posted By: Euphoric
http://jalopnik.com/5684589/save-the-nurburgring



Didn't you read the article? They handed it over to private enterprise, the free market is going to save it. Duh.

/stopped reading after the second mini paragraph because he's absolutely postive that private enterprise automatically fixes everything, and therefore knows the rest of the article is about how much more efficiently the track is running now and how many trillions of dollars its raking in

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#5259008 - 12/21/10 02:55 PM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: UglyValiant]
Serendipitous Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 04/30/01
Posts: 15299
Loc: Northern California
 Originally Posted By: UglyValiant
The blurb is bizarrely written (from jaloponik? no!)and leaves more question than answers...

Okay so if someone knows enough:

1. He blames the track predicament on privateers...who seem to be culpable. But were the derisively termed "privateers" scammed themselves by the less than honest book keeping that claimed 2 million visitors? Or were they somehow part of the scam? Was the administrators part of this scam? Short version is "who is responsible for the inflated numbers?"

2. Ostensibly when the writer says "publicly owned," he means gov't owned? The green bay packers are publicly owned, w/ no gov't ownership as are many corporations...but if the Minister of Finance had to resign, this does imply it's gov't, correct?




All of this. Maybe it was my quick reading but I don't fully understand what happened.

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#5259042 - 12/21/10 03:03 PM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: Serendipitous]
NOT spotch... Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 57155
http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/10527...the-nurburgring
Short Sabine video
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#5259118 - 12/21/10 03:32 PM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: NOT spotch...]
Euphoricuck Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan
heres a direct link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RplEKGs6Yj4
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#5259160 - 12/21/10 03:48 PM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: Euphoricuck]
NOT spotch... Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 57155
 Originally Posted By: Euphoric



Quite possibly the most entertaining woman on the planet.

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#5259305 - 12/21/10 05:02 PM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: NOT spotch...]
danl Offline
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Registered: 07/14/00
Posts: 12524
Loc: Maryland USA
Honestly, who gives a fuck.
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#5259433 - 12/21/10 06:07 PM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: danl]
NOT spotch... Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 57155
 Originally Posted By: danl
Honestly, who gives a fuck.



I care about whatever Sabine cares about.


/serious

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#5259450 - 12/21/10 06:24 PM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: danl]
Euphoricuck Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan
 Originally Posted By: danl
Honestly, who gives a fuck.
I think a lot of people do.
Its hands down the craziest/best track in the world. I would like it to be around for a while so when I have the means I can actually drive it in real world instead of just in video games.
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#5259455 - 12/21/10 06:25 PM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: danl]
neonmike22 Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 11/04/00
Posts: 3150
Loc: Nashville, TN
 Originally Posted By: danl
Honestly, who gives a fuck.


Imagine if they were going to close beaver springs. Times a million billion. Or something like that.

/empathy
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#5259537 - 12/21/10 07:03 PM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: neonmike22]
danl Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/14/00
Posts: 12524
Loc: Maryland USA
But who here has actually raced there? I think one person has. So to that end, who would really care?
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#5259702 - 12/21/10 08:42 PM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: danl]
NOT spotch... Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 57155


^ She cares.


/thread
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#5259754 - 12/21/10 09:08 PM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: danl]
Euphoricuck Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan
you cant be that dense
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#5259899 - 12/21/10 10:53 PM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: Serendipitous]
CommonGutterTrash Offline
This user is more useless than a half-baked compost pile.
Post Master Sr


Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 6437
Loc: Boston MA
 Originally Posted By: SreDude
 Originally Posted By: UglyValiant
The blurb is bizarrely written (from jaloponik? no!)and leaves more question than answers...

Okay so if someone knows enough:

1. He blames the track predicament on privateers...who seem to be culpable. But were the derisively termed "privateers" scammed themselves by the less than honest book keeping that claimed 2 million visitors? Or were they somehow part of the scam? Was the administrators part of this scam? Short version is "who is responsible for the inflated numbers?"

2. Ostensibly when the writer says "publicly owned," he means gov't owned? The green bay packers are publicly owned, w/ no gov't ownership as are many corporations...but if the Minister of Finance had to resign, this does imply it's gov't, correct?




All of this. Maybe it was my quick reading but I don't fully understand what happened.



whoever owned it was lying about numbers, and whoever purchased it promised that they could turn it into the next dubai based on those numbers.
"the economy" had it's way with the new investors plans, and people took it up the pooper because of it. Now, instead of the next dubai, it's the newest Euro-Disney.
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2000 9-5 Gary Fisher Wagon
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#5259917 - 12/21/10 11:07 PM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: CommonGutterTrash]
NOT spotch... Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 57155
 Originally Posted By: g96nt
 Originally Posted By: SreDude
 Originally Posted By: UglyValiant
The blurb is bizarrely written (from jaloponik? no!)and leaves more question than answers...

Okay so if someone knows enough:

1. He blames the track predicament on privateers...who seem to be culpable. But were the derisively termed "privateers" scammed themselves by the less than honest book keeping that claimed 2 million visitors? Or were they somehow part of the scam? Was the administrators part of this scam? Short version is "who is responsible for the inflated numbers?"

2. Ostensibly when the writer says "publicly owned," he means gov't owned? The green bay packers are publicly owned, w/ no gov't ownership as are many corporations...but if the Minister of Finance had to resign, this does imply it's gov't, correct?




All of this. Maybe it was my quick reading but I don't fully understand what happened.



whoever owned it was lying about numbers, and whoever purchased it promised that they could turn it into the next dubai based on those numbers.
"the economy" had it's way with the new investors plans, and people took it up the pooper because of it. Now, instead of the next dubai, it's the newest Euro-Disney.




Heh, except this was actually worth visiting at some point ;\)

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#5259925 - 12/21/10 11:12 PM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: NOT spotch...]
CommonGutterTrash Offline
This user is more useless than a half-baked compost pile.
Post Master Sr


Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 6437
Loc: Boston MA
I don't know.... I fucking hate it on GT5.
I've never known a road/track to hate more than that one.


based on a video game experience-alone, I'm not going.
_________________________
Craig R.
2000 9-5 Gary Fisher Wagon
1995 850 T-5R
1996 Galant

AIM = gclipse96

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#5259930 - 12/21/10 11:17 PM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: CommonGutterTrash]
Euphoricuck Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 11/05/03
Posts: 92703
Loc: Canadistan
waaaaaaaaaaaaaat

lmao
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#5259944 - 12/21/10 11:27 PM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: CommonGutterTrash]
vwkaferman Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 06/08/00
Posts: 13550
Loc: Mesa, AZ
 Originally Posted By: g96nt
I don't know.... I fucking hate it on GT5.
I've never known a road/track to hate more than that one.


based on a video game experience-alone, I'm not going.


No shit. I remember when I was a kid I'd do wheelies in video games. Then I got a bike and I was like "this sucks, it's NOTHING like the video game".

James
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#5260508 - 12/22/10 10:20 AM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: danl]
cliff st-clair Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 01/03/00
Posts: 6376
Loc: Queens Village, NY
 Originally Posted By: danl
Honestly, who gives a fuck.


Let's see...everyone that's posted in this thread so far not named danl or g96nt?
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03' 350z
04' Mazda 3 s

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#5260627 - 12/22/10 10:48 AM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: NOT spotch...]
scootergeek Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 46248
Loc: East of St. Louis
 Originally Posted By: spotch


^ She cares.


/thread


I love it when insecure dudes try to claim Sabine (or Vicki Butler Henderson for that matter) isn't hot and they don't see what the big deal is.
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Still pissy after all these years...

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#5260638 - 12/22/10 10:51 AM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: CommonGutterTrash]
Serendipitous Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 04/30/01
Posts: 15299
Loc: Northern California
 Originally Posted By: g96nt
I don't know.... I fucking hate it on GT5.
I've never known a road/track to hate more than that one.


based on a video game experience-alone, I'm not going.


I never played it on GT5 but from my Forza experience it's a lot more fun with a fast and well-sorted car like a C6 Z06 or 911 GT2. Ditch the 1999 9-3 and try one of those ;\)

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#5260653 - 12/22/10 10:56 AM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: scootergeek]
NOT spotch... Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 57155
 Originally Posted By: scootergeek
 Originally Posted By: spotch


^ She cares.


/thread


I love it when insecure dudes try to claim Sabine (or Vicki Butler Henderson for that matter) isn't hot and they don't see what the big deal is.



And it's not just that, she seems to have a great personality and I have yet to see a video where she isn't fun as hell to watch. She approaches it like she's just there to have a good time, and does a great job in the process.

I even love her accent (and I hate Germans! ;\) )

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#5260841 - 12/22/10 11:54 AM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: NOT spotch...]
UglyValiant Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 6364
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
 Originally Posted By: spotch
Didn't you read the article? They handed it over to private enterprise, the free market is going to save it. Duh.

/stopped reading after the second mini paragraph because he's absolutely postive that private enterprise automatically fixes everything, and therefore knows the rest of the article is about how much more efficiently the track is running now and how many trillions of dollars its raking in
C'mon spotch!

You know that's not true. The author is blaming the "privateers" for the tracks current predicament. It was the privateers who are causing the headaches for what the ill-defined "public-owned" track. (which, given that a gov't finance minister lost his job over the fiasco, leads me to think it was in fact government owned)

In any event, the author does little to clarify culpability by vaguely stating "the issue is complex..."; well, why won't he clarify?

So to sharpen the questions:

1. Who is responsible for cooking the books as to the number of vistors at the track?

2. Why did the developers not come through with the money? Was it a true "scam" and how did this benefit the scammers or what happened to dry up any potential investments in the facility?

2a. Were the developers aware or the source of the inflated numbers, or were they led to believe in the soundness of an investment by fraudulent numbers?

2b. Who financed the initial development? Who guaranteed the initial loans?

3. Who was responsible for okaying the decision to move forward? Were THEY aware of falsified numbers? If they themselves were scammed by the developers, how did the developers scam him/her? Was their anything that could have been caught by administrators who okayed this project that they were falling into a trap?

The blogger only wishes to rest on "it's complex" but it doesn't appear that it would be hard to get to the bottom of if the "privateers" (another word for mercenary, or gov't sponsored pirates) were in fact scammers.

I mean, were these guys originating from a computer in Nigeria?
_________________________
1979 Dodge Lil' Red Express Truck
1989 Shelby CSX (#500/500)
The most powerful production minivan money can buy.

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#5260869 - 12/22/10 12:04 PM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: NOT spotch...]
ReplicaR Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 7095
Loc: E.E.B.
 Originally Posted By: spotch
 Originally Posted By: scootergeek
 Originally Posted By: spotch


^ She cares.


/thread


I love it when insecure dudes try to claim Sabine (or Vicki Butler Henderson for that matter) isn't hot and they don't see what the big deal is.



And it's not just that, she seems to have a great personality and I have yet to see a video where she isn't fun as hell to watch. She approaches it like she's just there to have a good time, and does a great job in the process.

I even love her accent (and I hate Germans! ;\) )


She can drive extremely well, and I can see where the appeal is there, but come on people. She's not all that attractive. Let's get real for a second. If you'd see her in a bar, and set of the driving aside, you would probably not bee line towards her.
_________________________
'94 Mustang GT

Acceleration.... \:\( -------+-- \:\)
Handling......... \:\( -------+-- \:\)
Speed............ \:\( ------+--- \:\)

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#5260883 - 12/22/10 12:10 PM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: ReplicaR]
Impulsive Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 11/28/99
Posts: 80040
Loc: Edmonton
What he said. She's a moderately attractive middle aged female - nothing more. Hotness is added by being a car girl.
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#5260887 - 12/22/10 12:11 PM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: ReplicaR]
UglyValiant Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 6364
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
 Originally Posted By: ReplicaR

She can drive extremely well, and I can see where the appeal is there, but come on people. She's not all that attractive. Let's get real for a second. If you'd see her in a bar, and set of the driving aside, you would probably not bee line towards her.
Being around her age, I'll say she's pretty attractive. I mean, most that we post up on the internet aren't squatting (okay, some of you weirdo's maybe they are... ), wearing jeans and a polo shirt, and no make-up. But given the handicaps she still is attractive, and I'd be pretty certain she cleans up nicely.
_________________________
1979 Dodge Lil' Red Express Truck
1989 Shelby CSX (#500/500)
The most powerful production minivan money can buy.

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#5260969 - 12/22/10 12:36 PM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: UglyValiant]
hustler Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 01/09/00
Posts: 6095
Loc: Seattle, WA
According to the article, The government which owns the track leased a portion of the track to a private group which at some point determined they were going to make "improvements" to the track. Probably much like businesses do that lease office spaces. They change the space to suite their needs. Last I checked in most places the lessee needs to get approval from the lessor to make such improvements. I think that is where the interior minister or w/e the fuck they call the guy in Germany was caught probably pocketing money from allowing this fucked up deal to go through when obviously they had no idea about the impacts on the region, the actual number of visitors needed to make the improvements profitable etc etc etc. The government fucked up by letting these dolts come in with this ridiculous plan that was not well thought out. So I'm guessing the investors have backed out and the public which owns the course is now burdened with a debt to finish the project otherwise it sits. The investors can sue the crooks who sold them on this bs, it shouldn't land in the publics hand, but this is where the track now gets burdened with the debt and the funding previously used to maintain the track gets dipped into to finish this project. I'm guessing the public now owns all these half assed improvements, but the reality is there should have been multiple people sacked from their nice german government jobs for letting these swindlers take them for a ride. Idiots.
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#5260974 - 12/22/10 12:39 PM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: UglyValiant]
ReplicaR Offline
Post Master Sr


Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 7095
Loc: E.E.B.
Dude, she's got facial features of Michael Schumacher, posture of a small male. There is almost nothing feminine about her from any footage I've seen. Maybe I'm wrong, but most likely I'm not.

I've tried the whole dating mediocre looking girl who is into cars. It did not work out too great, because every time you see a better looking girl, which was pretty often, you wish you were with her instead. Then I realized that I have friends who are into cars, and I get that fulfillment from them, so I don't need S/O who is into cars.
_________________________
'94 Mustang GT

Acceleration.... \:\( -------+-- \:\)
Handling......... \:\( -------+-- \:\)
Speed............ \:\( ------+--- \:\)

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#5261623 - 12/22/10 04:56 PM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: ReplicaR]
scootergeek Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 46248
Loc: East of St. Louis
_________________________
Still pissy after all these years...

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#5261625 - 12/22/10 04:56 PM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: ReplicaR]
NOT spotch... Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 57155
 Originally Posted By: ReplicaR
 Originally Posted By: spotch
 Originally Posted By: scootergeek
 Originally Posted By: spotch


^ She cares.


/thread


I love it when insecure dudes try to claim Sabine (or Vicki Butler Henderson for that matter) isn't hot and they don't see what the big deal is.



And it's not just that, she seems to have a great personality and I have yet to see a video where she isn't fun as hell to watch. She approaches it like she's just there to have a good time, and does a great job in the process.

I even love her accent (and I hate Germans! ;\) )


She can drive extremely well, and I can see where the appeal is there, but come on people. She's not all that attractive. Let's get real for a second. If you'd see her in a bar, and set of the driving aside, you would probably not bee line towards her.


It's not about wanting to fuck her brains out, it's about her just being all-around cool. I'm not saying she's the most attractive woman I've ever seen, just that she's awesome in a number of ways (good driver, entertaining, not unattractive, witty, apparently has a good personality from all the videos I've seen her in).

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#5261631 - 12/22/10 04:58 PM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: UglyValiant]
NOT spotch... Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/25/00
Posts: 57155
 Originally Posted By: UglyValiant
 Originally Posted By: spotch
Didn't you read the article? They handed it over to private enterprise, the free market is going to save it. Duh.

/stopped reading after the second mini paragraph because he's absolutely postive that private enterprise automatically fixes everything, and therefore knows the rest of the article is about how much more efficiently the track is running now and how many trillions of dollars its raking in
C'mon spotch!

You know that's not true. The author is blaming the "privateers" for the tracks current predicament. It was the privateers who are causing the headaches for what the ill-defined "public-owned" track. (which, given that a gov't finance minister lost his job over the fiasco, leads me to think it was in fact government owned)

In any event, the author does little to clarify culpability by vaguely stating "the issue is complex..."; well, why won't he clarify?

So to sharpen the questions:

1. Who is responsible for cooking the books as to the number of vistors at the track?

2. Why did the developers not come through with the money? Was it a true "scam" and how did this benefit the scammers or what happened to dry up any potential investments in the facility?

2a. Were the developers aware or the source of the inflated numbers, or were they led to believe in the soundness of an investment by fraudulent numbers?

2b. Who financed the initial development? Who guaranteed the initial loans?

3. Who was responsible for okaying the decision to move forward? Were THEY aware of falsified numbers? If they themselves were scammed by the developers, how did the developers scam him/her? Was their anything that could have been caught by administrators who okayed this project that they were falling into a trap?

The blogger only wishes to rest on "it's complex" but it doesn't appear that it would be hard to get to the bottom of if the "privateers" (another word for mercenary, or gov't sponsored pirates) were in fact scammers.

I mean, were these guys originating from a computer in Nigeria?


I told you dude, I'm not worried. Once I saw they got private enterprise involved I knew any other problems will just work themselves out. The motive for one group of people to profit off another seems to have solved all the rest of the worlds' problems, no?

;\)

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#5261655 - 12/22/10 05:05 PM Re: Save the Nurburgring [Re: NOT spotch...]
scootergeek Offline
Post Master Supreme


Registered: 07/24/00
Posts: 46248
Loc: East of St. Louis
 Originally Posted By: spotch
It's not about wanting to fuck her brains out, it's about her just being all-around cool. I'm not saying she's the most attractive woman I've ever seen, just that she's awesome in a number of ways (good driver, entertaining, not unattractive, witty, apparently has a good personality from all the videos I've seen her in).


Don't bother dude, they're all dating Victoria's Secret models (well, doing something to Victoria's Secret models at any rate).
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