#5977596 - 12/06/11 01:18 PM
Changing up routine: Necessary and how often?
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HX_Guy
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I've now done 3 months of weight lifting, 3x per week and the same exercises on each Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.
Should I change up my exercises now (or at a later time)? Does it help to change it up so the body doesn't get used to what you're doing and stop growing or is that a myth?
Example would be that I do decline bench on Monday, flat bench on Wednesday and incline bench on Friday. Should I change to say dumb declines or flys or some other exercises for the chest?
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#5977845 - 12/06/11 02:11 PM
Re: Changing up routine: Necessary and how often?
[Re: HX_Guy]
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mrnismo
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Questions like this are the reason programs like Starting Strength exist -- so you don't have to play guesswork.
But, to try to answer your question -- your only goal should be to add weight to the core lifts. The best way to add weight to core lifts? Do them and don't ever stop doing them simply for 'muscle confusion' purposes.
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#5977885 - 12/06/11 02:21 PM
Re: Changing up routine: Necessary and how often?
[Re: mrnismo]
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Artvandelay
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Why are you doing decline bench?
Why are you doing bench presses every other day?
What sort of gains have you made in your lifts over the past 3 months?
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#5977992 - 12/06/11 02:51 PM
Re: Changing up routine: Necessary and how often?
[Re: ]
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HX_Guy
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Why are you doing decline bench?
Why are you doing bench presses every other day?
What sort of gains have you made in your lifts over the past 3 months?
Based on the suggestions by Silock and a website he recommended: http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2011/07/suppversity-emg-series-musculus.html
According to that, decline bench is the best thing you can do for your chest.
I've been doing 3 sets of decline Monday, 3 sets of flat on Wednesday, and 3 sets of incline on Friday.
Gains wise it hasn't been as good as other muscle groups but when I started I was doing 115lbs 8-5-3 (from what I remember) and now I'm doing 135lbs 10-10-9 (for decline and flat, incline I am doing 135lbs 10-8-6).
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#5977994 - 12/06/11 02:52 PM
Re: Changing up routine: Necessary and how often?
[Re: ]
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HX_Guy
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Yep. Read starting strength and fuxkarounditis
Those 2 will clear up a ton for you.
Is there a digital copy of these that you know of? I need to do a quick search.
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#5978639 - 12/06/11 09:19 PM
Re: Changing up routine: Necessary and how often?
[Re: ]
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HX_Guy
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Well crap...so what about the link I posted? How can they contradict each other? Not just that, but is there really that much of a difference between flat and decline that it would make decline essentially "masturbation and a waste of time"?
I don't know, I guess I'm having a hard time buying the fact that changing the angle of the bench by 20 degrees or whatever would change an excellent workout to a completely useless one.
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#5978646 - 12/06/11 09:22 PM
Re: Changing up routine: Necessary and how often?
[Re: HX_Guy]
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Silock
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Why are you doing decline bench?
Why are you doing bench presses every other day?
What sort of gains have you made in your lifts over the past 3 months?
Based on the suggestions by Silock and a website he recommended: http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2011/07/suppversity-emg-series-musculus.htmlAccording to that, decline bench is the best thing you can do for your chest. I've been doing 3 sets of decline Monday, 3 sets of flat on Wednesday, and 3 sets of incline on Friday. Gains wise it hasn't been as good as other muscle groups but when I started I was doing 115lbs 8-5-3 (from what I remember) and now I'm doing 135lbs 10-10-9 (for decline and flat, incline I am doing 135lbs 10-8-6).
See, this is why you need to get on a proven program. It's one thing to read the studies, but you aren't experienced enough to know precisely how they should be applied in a greater context. And that's not a knock on your intelligence or anything. It's just a matter of experience and exposure. We've all been where you're at at one point in time. The problem is that the experienced guys tell the inexperienced what the best way to do it is, but the noobs just don't want to listen, or want to jump the gun into doing it the way they want. It's a matter of knowing how to apply the knowledge that separates the experienced lifter from the time wasters.
Just do SS or something. Set it and forget it.
As long as you are continually adding to your lifts, whether reps or weight, there's no need to change it up.
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#5978716 - 12/06/11 09:49 PM
Re: Changing up routine: Necessary and how often?
[Re: HX_Guy]
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dirtyS13drifta
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Well crap...so what about the link I posted? How can they contradict each other? Not just that, but is there really that much of a difference between flat and decline that it would make decline essentially "masturbation and a waste of time"?
I don't know, I guess I'm having a hard time buying the fact that changing the angle of the bench by 20 degrees or whatever would change an excellent workout to a completely useless one.
Well because one is merely measuring the load the chest is taking.
The other is trying to maximize functional strength. I.e. you don't use your chest without your deltoids and tris and even bi/etc. Why try to blast it? because you want big boos?
One is for someone trying to overcome a chest deficiency for strength(powerlifting) or size(body building).
However, who's to say you have a chest deficiency? Do you think you do?
Personally I find my arms limit most my stength, but I can tell my torso still gets rocked too. So I do the exercises that work them all in the same proportions I plan to use them. I'm not at the point of my strength where I need to isolate specific muscles or parts of muscles(sternal/clavical pec).
I suspect you're not either.
But to each their own.
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#5978740 - 12/06/11 09:58 PM
Re: Changing up routine: Necessary and how often?
[Re: ]
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HX_Guy
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Just order it from Amazon and have a hard copy in your hands by Thursday. You won't regret it.
Are you talking about this book? http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-...23228329&sr=8-2
And why is the 3rd edition $29.99 while the older 2nd edition is $99+ for the used one?
http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-...23228329&sr=8-1
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#5978833 - 12/06/11 10:39 PM
Re: Changing up routine: Necessary and how often?
[Re: ]
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Silock
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Reading that it'll tell you that decline bench is essentially masturbation and waste of time.
Which is actually scientifically incorrect. It may not be the best for OVERALL development, but it's the best in terms of pec activation. I would never base a routine aroud it, but using it as an auxillary chest movement is totally fine. Jim Wendler recommends it as such. I'll tell you the reason I subscribe to it, not backed by anything more than my perspective....because it is the shortest range of motion of the 3 and weighted dips seems to achieve the same action yet a longer range of motion. 
That could also be an individual thing. Personally, I do dips on the day I do military press, because I get more shoulder work out of it than chest.
The great news is that there's room for all of the exercises! You don't have to pick just one. The EMG data doesn't lie, though.
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#5979597 - 12/07/11 10:25 AM
Re: Changing up routine: Necessary and how often?
[Re: Silock]
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Artvandelay
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See, this is why you need to get on a proven program
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#5979682 - 12/07/11 10:48 AM
Re: Changing up routine: Necessary and how often?
[Re: ]
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HX_Guy
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Somethings wrong with that guys pricing....I bough the 3rd addition for 30 bucks.
Ordered. Now I'll have something to read on my flight over to Europe. 
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#5982389 - 12/08/11 11:00 AM
Re: Changing up routine: Necessary and how often?
[Re: ]
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HX_Guy
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I should be getting the Starting Strength book from Amazon today and I have an upcoming trip overseas where I can take some time to read it. I'll actually be away from the gym for a couple weeks (which brings up another subject of what are good exercises to do with no gym equipment...but I think that's a whole other thread) but when I come back, it'll be a perfect time to modify anything I need and follow the advice of Starting Strength.
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#5982955 - 12/08/11 01:39 PM
Re: Changing up routine: Necessary and how often?
[Re: ]
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HX_Guy
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Wow you do quite a few less reps than I do. For squats as an example, I do 5x12. For bench press, I do 3x10 (or try to).
Is the low amount of reps/sets something that SS teaches?
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#5983004 - 12/08/11 01:55 PM
Re: Changing up routine: Necessary and how often?
[Re: HX_Guy]
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Artvandelay
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Wow you do quite a few less reps than I do. For squats as an example, I do 5x12. For bench press, I do 3x10 (or try to).
Is the low amount of reps/sets something that SS teaches?
5x12 squat? That sounds like a whole lot of waste to me, if you can do 12 reps, you're not using enough weight or your form is shit.
What you want with regards to lifting is steady progress. You want to be steadily adding weight to your lifts without sacrificing form.
Blackghost's gains are excellent and as long as he warms up and eats well and continues on the program he will continue to gain...Not forever, obviously.
if you're just doing tons of high reps with light weight you're really just doing cardio and you're not building strength.
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#5983190 - 12/08/11 02:54 PM
Re: Changing up routine: Necessary and how often?
[Re: ]
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Artvandelay
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No pain no gain
Eventually you want to make sure you have a spotter so you can really make the most of it and strive for those last reps once the weight gets way past your comfort zone. Those reps are where you make your gains.
good job
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#5983191 - 12/08/11 02:54 PM
Re: Changing up routine: Necessary and how often?
[Re: ]
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dirtyS13drifta
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The SS sessions shouldn't take to long to complete at the gym. I do the Monday, Wednesday and Friday routine.
It revolves around squats, deadlifts, powercleans(very technical) and standing press and bench press. Very simple.
Monday
squats 3x5
benchpress 3x5
deadlifts 1x5
Wednesday
squats 3x5
standing press 3x5
power cleans 5x3
Friday
squats 3x5
benchpress 3x5
deadlifts 1x5
(any other accompanying exercises if you REALLY feel the need too)
I have never really lifted (heavy) in my life and I'm getting a tad older now and I have had a lot of injuries with anything from a broken wrists, ankle and collarbone to dislocated shoulder and I have had no issues.
I don't know if my gains are impressive after ~2 months or so just because I'm new but I'm sure I'm on the right path.
before/currently
squats 155/210
deadlifts 155/235
benchpress 135/160
standing press 85/105
power clean 85/115 (Still trying to focus more on proper technique then adding more weight)
Similar progress. Though I had no idea what I could truly squat or DL before I started. Only Bench had I hit a 5rm before and I've already passed that with strength to spare.
My Results(all 3x5):(funny numbers because metric system is dumb)
Squat: 132-220 (prior est 5rm, 154)
Bench: 121-170.5 (prior 5rm(1set), 158.4
DL: 165-258.5 (prior est 5rm, 190)
Press: 60.5-99 (prior est 5rm, 70)
Row(can't do cleans at my shit gym): 77-126.5
I'm 7 weeks in. I had been lifting before had for about 3 months. Bench was the only "big lift" I was doing for those 3 months. As you can see I increased my bench in 7 weeks.
I'm now at the point that every workout I'm hitting new PR for everything. I gained most my weight prior to S.S., but my shape has changed for sure. It definitely has given me more definition and a muscular shape.
My Torso and upper thighs have grown, meaning my pants don't fit as well. I've actually probably reduced my V shape, but I'm clearly more muscular everywhere.
About the only draw-back is my lower back gets tight when I run the day after Deadlifts. It's nothing more than the muscles aching, but it makes it so I have to stop once a mile and stretch it loose.
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#5984768 - 12/09/11 01:08 PM
Re: Changing up routine: Necessary and how often?
[Re: Euphoricuck]
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HX_Guy
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for fucks sake 
Per Silock...
Legs X 5 sets Back X 4 sets Chest X 3 sets Shoulders X 2 sets Biceps X 2 set Tricep X 2 set That should be plenty of work. Since you're hitting them more frequently, you don't need quite as many sets per session. I assume legs X 5 so that you can do both squats and deadlifts. A couple of exercises for back, row and chins. Chest do two sets of flat or decline bench and then throw in a set of incline. Shoulder do a set of military press and then a set of lateral raises. Then whatever floats your boat for the rest. As far as what exercises are the best, check out this series: http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2011/07/suppversity-emg-series-musculus.html
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#5984876 - 12/09/11 01:50 PM
Re: Changing up routine: Necessary and how often?
[Re: Silock]
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HX_Guy
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No harm done...I've already made a lot of gains in my opinion on the the routine I've been on. I'll start doing the Starting Strength after the New Year.
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#5987012 - 12/10/11 07:23 PM
Re: Changing up routine: Necessary and how often?
[Re: ]
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dirtyS13drifta
dirtyS13drifta
Unregistered
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The SS sessions shouldn't take to long to complete at the gym. I do the Monday, Wednesday and Friday routine.
It revolves around squats, deadlifts, powercleans(very technical) and standing press and bench press. Very simple.
Monday
squats 3x5
benchpress 3x5
deadlifts 1x5
Wednesday
squats 3x5
standing press 3x5
power cleans 5x3
Friday
squats 3x5
benchpress 3x5
deadlifts 1x5
(any other accompanying exercises if you REALLY feel the need too)
I have never really lifted (heavy) in my life and I'm getting a tad older now and I have had a lot of injuries with anything from a broken wrists, ankle and collarbone to dislocated shoulder and I have had no issues.
I don't know if my gains are impressive after ~2 months or so just because I'm new but I'm sure I'm on the right path.
before/currently
squats 155/210
deadlifts 155/235
benchpress 135/160
standing press 85/105
power clean 85/115 (Still trying to focus more on proper technique then adding more weight) Similar progress. Though I had no idea what I could truly squat or DL before I started. Only Bench had I hit a 5rm before and I've already passed that with strength to spare. My Results(all 3x5):(funny numbers because metric system is dumb) Squat: 132-220 (prior est 5rm, 154) Bench: 121-170.5 (prior 5rm(1set), 158.4 DL: 165-258.5 (prior est 5rm, 190) Press: 60.5-99 (prior est 5rm, 70) Row(can't do cleans at my shit gym): 77-126.5 I'm 7 weeks in. I had been lifting before had for about 3 months. Bench was the only "big lift" I was doing for those 3 months. As you can see I increased my bench in 7 weeks. I'm now at the point that every workout I'm hitting new PR for everything. I gained most my weight prior to S.S., but my shape has changed for sure. It definitely has given me more definition and a muscular shape. My Torso and upper thighs have grown, meaning my pants don't fit as well. I've actually probably reduced my V shape, but I'm clearly more muscular everywhere. About the only draw-back is my lower back gets tight when I run the day after Deadlifts. It's nothing more than the muscles aching, but it makes it so I have to stop once a mile and stretch it loose. Nice gains on the bench. I had reset on that lift due to me not having proper form as I wasn't able to add anymore weight after ~165lbs. It would be nice if I could do 225lbs(bench) 315 (DL) 315 (Squats) by summer but that will take A LOT of work and clean eating and most importantly dedication, no pain no gain.
Gains are really only 11lbs so far from prior pr. I started quite low. I remember worrying I'd lose strength starting so much lower than what I was capable of. The first 2 weeks I really thought I was wasting time. Obviously not. HX guy, note this. Start light and you'll be impressed how long you'll keep increasing. I did focus on perfecting my form though. I'll be loading up 176 tomorrow. Should be quite doable, i'd say 13 of my 15 reps last time were still perfect(middle reps on 2,3rd sets I tend to get a lil lazy). The last 3 weeks bench hasn't gotten any harder, it just keeps being about a 80% effort. Great adaptation there. If I were to guess? I'd say 185 might become a struggle, but who knows.
After this week I'll have to hold still on my weights for a bit. I've got 3 weeks of backpacking/hiking with only once change to hit the gym from Christmas to Mid-January.
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#5991280 - 12/12/11 09:17 PM
Re: Changing up routine: Necessary and how often?
[Re: ]
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Back 5
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HX_Guy is going way overboard on this. Chillax dude and just lift some weights. If you can get on a good lifting program, with dedicated rest periods, for a year...come back when you need to start refining specific body parts.
Like Drew basically said...doing something at this point is better than naught. You aren't an elite athlete trying to gain that 1% strength difference for a competitive edge. Just go to the gym and lift.
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#5991384 - 12/12/11 10:15 PM
Re: Changing up routine: Necessary and how often?
[Re: Back 5]
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HX_Guy
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HX_Guy is going way overboard on this. Chillax dude and just lift some weights. If you can get on a good lifting program, with dedicated rest periods, for a year...come back when you need to start refining specific body parts.
Like Drew basically said...doing something at this point is better than naught. You aren't an elite athlete trying to gain that 1% strength difference for a competitive edge. Just go to the gym and lift.
That's kind of how I looked at this whole thing but then you have guys like Euphoric coming in here with "For fucks sake " like what I'm doing is actually worse than if I wasn't doing anything at all.
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#5991497 - 12/12/11 11:04 PM
Re: Changing up routine: Necessary and how often?
[Re: HX_Guy]
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Silock
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Posts: 60326
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HX_Guy is going way overboard on this. Chillax dude and just lift some weights. If you can get on a good lifting program, with dedicated rest periods, for a year...come back when you need to start refining specific body parts.
Like Drew basically said...doing something at this point is better than naught. You aren't an elite athlete trying to gain that 1% strength difference for a competitive edge. Just go to the gym and lift. That's kind of how I looked at this whole thing but then you have guys like Euphoric coming in here with "For fucks sake " like what I'm doing is actually worse than if I wasn't doing anything at all.
No, but maximizing your time in the gym is a good thing, and I'm still not sure why you refuse to do it. Whatevs, though.
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#5991943 - 12/13/11 09:32 AM
Re: Changing up routine: Necessary and how often?
[Re: Silock]
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Artvandelay
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Unregistered
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HX_Guy is going way overboard on this. Chillax dude and just lift some weights. If you can get on a good lifting program, with dedicated rest periods, for a year...come back when you need to start refining specific body parts.
Like Drew basically said...doing something at this point is better than naught. You aren't an elite athlete trying to gain that 1% strength difference for a competitive edge. Just go to the gym and lift. That's kind of how I looked at this whole thing but then you have guys like Euphoric coming in here with "For fucks sake " like what I'm doing is actually worse than if I wasn't doing anything at all. No, but maximizing your time in the gym is a good thing, and I'm still not sure why you refuse to do it. Whatevs, though.
The information is out there, a couple other members have been consistently posting about switching to a 5x5 and starting strength. HX_guy is just one of those dudes who is reluctant to listen, for whatever reason, and will spend month after month doing countless reps and never gaining any strength or muscle. I mean, better than nothing but far from the "right way" of doing it.
If you're a noob - 5x5/starting strength + diet, multivitamin and protein powder, tons of water. Add 2-3 days of decent cardio. DONE.
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#5991996 - 12/13/11 09:52 AM
Re: Changing up routine: Necessary and how often?
[Re: HX_Guy]
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Artvandelay
Artvandelay
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Good. Just start light and stick to it. the only thing you should add is cardio. Don't add any other lifts.
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#5992822 - 12/13/11 01:43 PM
Re: Changing up routine: Necessary and how often?
[Re: HX_Guy]
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dirtyS13drifta
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Like I said, I thought I was on a program. Hell I've been doing a crapload of reps where I could apparently be doing less (with more weight of course)...you don't think I'd rather do that? Doing squats 5 sets 12 reps gets pretty tiring. 
If you're on a program why are you so consistantly asking about 4x3 vs 3x4 or when to change your weight, or when to change your routine?
A program spells out all that.
Any program you'll be on will be pretty tiring. I'm fucking beat from from my workout 2 days ago. But I hit all new PRs(and thus hit my christmas goals) on Monday on the big 3 exercises.
I thought I could work smarter, but after doing SS(well a variant, no cleans) I'm now convinced. One of the smartest things you can do is those 3-5 lifts, with a lot of weight, and not try to spot train smaller muscles. Unless you're a body builder os power-lifter, you don't need to isolate single muscles.
The small consistant increases really drive some adaption in your body.
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