#4359598 - 12/21/09 08:05 AM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: NOHC]
|
ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
|
Dan, I bought new "oem" rings from partsdinosaur.com. At least by the packaging, they look like stock rings. They were very sturdy and went in really easily so that made it nice. Everything rotates smoothly but I have to turn it over a few more times by hand to get the assembly lube everywhere it needs to be.
Mike, the 6 bolt bottom end is really pretty impressive. If I had more patience/time, I would have gone to a 2G piston/6 bolt rod combo. That combo in an otherwise-untouched 6 bolt block has seen 500+ whp and adds a little compression as well. If I had more money, I would have thrown in EVO IX internals to get a stock forged piston, 9.5:1 compression roughly, and plenty of power potential. But, I'm staying put on the 16G that I have so I don't really think I'll need to worry about 500 whp for the foreseeable future 
Todd
_________________________
2011 Edge (Wife's appliance) EVO IX MR, minor mods 
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#4359758 - 12/21/09 09:18 AM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: danl]
|
ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
|
Wow, glad I stayed with stockers, Dan. Thanks for the heads up! If this thing ever comes back apart it's getting a serious bottom end. I'm honestly hoping I don't have to do that though. Would rather be in a position where I can get a spare block and build it the right way (outside of the car).
Todd
_________________________
2011 Edge (Wife's appliance) EVO IX MR, minor mods
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#4364361 - 12/22/09 11:36 AM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: danl]
|
ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
|
Makes sense to me. I need to find a 12 x 1.25 tap to chase my headstud holes but other than that I should have my parts by Wednesday to start putting this thing back together. It's a good thing since I can't find a damned Fit to pick up within a reasonable distance... I'm hoping to have it done by New Year's at this point.
Quick question - since I put in new rings, I had planned on buying a shit ton of dino-oil (10W-30?) to start the car and just using water in the radiator for the initial startup. Start it up, run it for 5 minutes, shut it down, drain the oil/water and refill with the same weight oil and actual coolant/water mix. Drive it for a tank of gas and flush the oil at least. I'm not sure what else I need to do for break-in but I understand I need to do copious amounts of engine breaking to seat them? I'm not planning on babying this thing for 1000 miles or something. It's going to get a kind treatment for the first tank of gas then it's going to be driven like normal (which is still pretty easy, just throw in a few WOT runs here and there).
Todd
_________________________
2011 Edge (Wife's appliance) EVO IX MR, minor mods
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#4364517 - 12/22/09 12:41 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: ElectronVTEC2]
|
NadFab
Newbie
Registered: 12/30/08
Posts: 26
|
Thats some pretty good carnage there. I've had valves stuck in the pistons before.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#4364781 - 12/22/09 01:44 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: ElectronVTEC2]
|
progressi
Post Master Sr
Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 9133
|
Todd,I wish I could give you advice,but with Dan here it's pointless-all I can do is nod. lol
But I can tell you this. Beat this car,wrench on it til' you get it right. Make this an accomplishment and come out of it stronger. These are awesome cars but they can and have tested the resolve of good mechanics. They're just getting too old and have seen too much abuse-both intentional and otherwise.
When I was new with my DSM there were days I was sick of it,but they became fewer and far between. It was tough because I had a 60 mile daily commute to make with it and I could never afford to be broken down. The commute was hilly,often in 100 degree heat with the AC running and Id be stuck in traffic often. Having said all that,the car never let me down-never broke down. It had issues at time,but most of them were just performance issues,not necessarily drivability. I blame most of those performance issues on the nasty CA gas,ask Dano about that. Dude, I don't know how I missed this post before but it's a good one. Thanks for the encouragement! Todd 
Thanks dude,lol. Glad to see you back on the forums.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#4365085 - 12/22/09 02:57 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: progressi]
|
danl
Post Master Supreme
Registered: 07/14/00
Posts: 12519
Loc: Maryland USA
|
I don't like chasing the threads unless you can't bottom out the stud by hand. That is all you need to do, is bottom out the stud. Clean out the crud as best you can with brake cleaner and a needle on the end of your compressed air gun to really get down there. The reason you don't want to chase it is that every time you chase it you remove some threads material and roughen up the nicely tapped threads a bit when dirt pushes the tap around as you are chasing it. I have a local machine shop that I get those taps from, if you must tap it do a starter tap, clean it out, then finish up with a bottoming tap.
I just run real cheap oil when firing the motor. Buy a gallon of whatever and run that for 50 miles or so. Then switch to whatever you are using. I try to fire it up and drive right away, loading down the motor. Doing a bunch of cold starts washes the oil off the cylinder walls, so try to warm the block as much as you can, fire it once, hopefully no major leaks, and drive it 20-50 miles. Then change oil and filter and beat on it. When doing the initial drive go up hills, coast in gear down hills, get 5-10psi boost, drive it like it gets driven normally.
The engine in my car I reused the rings, honed the cylinders, and was making passes at about the 200 mile mark. That is 120 break in and an 80 mile drive to the track.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#4365291 - 12/22/09 04:02 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: danl]
|
ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
|
Sounds good Dan. I can bottom out the studs by hand so I will go ahead and brake cleaner + air gun them out as well as possible.
I understand the part about the cold starts on a new motor - I won't really have a way to warm the block but I will check for leaks prior to the initial start as best I can and just drive it like normal for 20-50 (a trip to work and back is typical and is 50 miles), then flush it, new filter, and drive it again.
_________________________
2011 Edge (Wife's appliance) EVO IX MR, minor mods
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#4366123 - 12/22/09 08:34 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: danl]
|
CommonGutterTrash
This user is more useless than a half-baked compost pile.
Post Master Sr
Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 6437
Loc: Boston MA
|
dan's is fine, I'm sure, but I always do:
Fire up with water, and 10/30.. idle for 20-minutes.
change oil to 1030, and put 500 miles, low boost.
change oil to whatever you intend to use, and add coolant.
have at it!
(if there's a lot of machining done, I might change @ 100 miles, too.)
I've never chased head threads.
blast it out, and you should be fine. use the moly lube from the ARP's, not oil. and CERTAINLY not dry. wiggle them as you screw them down, so they fart out the air pockets, or it will feel like you're bottoming out.
Make sure you pull the MPI fuse when you prime the motor, or else you'll be spraying down the cylinders with gas. (some people just pull the plugs/transistor pack.)
and... lastly.
the best dsm motor I ever owned was a big-rod, 2g piston, BSEK bottom end, with a 2g head, and 1g cams.
my last big-rod 6-bolt was good, with the fp2's, but I really miss the "snappy" 1g/2g motor around town.
_________________________
Craig R. 2000 9-5 Gary Fisher Wagon 1995 850 T-5R 1996 Galant  AIM = gclipse96
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#4366151 - 12/22/09 08:47 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: CommonGutterTrash]
|
ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
|
I bought ARP lube for the studs as I didn't want to torque down with motor oil. Thanks for the tips Craig - I'd have never done the "wiggle" thing on the stud install if you hadn't mentioned it. I should also point out, I was able to spin the studs out by hand, but had to "break them loose" so to say with a quick tug on an allen wrench. They came out pretty clean too so I don't think there's a ton of gunk clean out but I'll get what I can anyway.
Todd
_________________________
2011 Edge (Wife's appliance) EVO IX MR, minor mods
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#4369357 - 12/23/09 09:58 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: ElectronVTEC2]
|
ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
|
Got the oil pan installed - one fucking bolt just about ruined my night, but I persevered and got it in its place finally. Then came the transfer case - forgot how hard that thing is to get on when you don't have a lift, but it's on. Also put the water pump on, just copper-sprayed the pump-side of the gasket and torqued the bolts in a sequence similar to a car rim if that makes sense. I didn't torque-wrench it, just tightened them down tight enough that I wasn't giving it all I had. I'd guess 25-30 ft-lbs?
Found out the head and cams will be here on Tuesday so they will go straight to the machine shop for prep/cleaning/assembly. I hope to be installing all of that goodness next weekend. So, now it's just time to wait and enjoy the holidays. I think I'd rather be working on the car though...
Todd
_________________________
2011 Edge (Wife's appliance) EVO IX MR, minor mods
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#4369389 - 12/23/09 10:20 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: danl]
|
ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
|
Yea, it basically goes between the oil pump/crank gears and I made sure that's where I put it. Would have saved that one for last had it not been for the damn bolt right on top of the axle...
Forgot a funny "workin on the car" story though. So I was installing the water pump and had all five bolts on top of the shock tower with my little Stanley LED light resting on the motor mount bracket so I could see. I bumped the light and saw the bolts rolling around on the strut tower but didn't think anything of it. I get 4 of the bolts in and realize... shit, the smallest bolt fell off the shock tower and is god-knows-where. So, I start crawling around looking for it with my light and I can't find it anywhere. I'm looking under the car, on the subframe, in every nook and cranny I can think of and it's nowhere to be found. This goes on for at least forty-five minutes. I *hate* losing bolts because even if you have one to replace it, there's no telling where that sumbitch ended up. So I keep looking.
And looking...
And looking.
Then, I'm standing over the motor just thinking, FML, when I think - hey, I never heard anything hit the ground, so wherever it is, it must be somewhere where it wouldn't have made a sound when it landed. And then it dawns on me.
The bottom of my goddamn Stanley light is magnetic.
One guess where my lost bolt was? It traveled around the garage looking for itself for forty five minutes before it found itself.
That's how you waste forty five minutes of your life that you will never, ever get back.
Todd
_________________________
2011 Edge (Wife's appliance) EVO IX MR, minor mods
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#4371294 - 12/24/09 10:31 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: danl]
|
theLoon
Post Master Sr
Registered: 01/06/03
Posts: 3275
Loc: MN
|
Not sure which is worse, losing bolts or ending up with extra bolts when you're "finished".
_________________________
 I'm a badge whore
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#4371879 - 12/25/09 10:04 AM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: theLoon]
|
ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
|
Good point - we'll see how many extras we have after she's all back together. I'll put the over/under at 2.
Todd
_________________________
2011 Edge (Wife's appliance) EVO IX MR, minor mods
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#4388295 - 01/02/10 12:10 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: ElectronVTEC2]
|
ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
|
Just posting a little update - the used head I purchased ended up being no good. I was able to get my money back from the seller but that means I'm still in need of a head. I ended up going with a DSM Graveyard "Frankenstein" 6 bolt head which will have all new seals, valves, Supertech valve springs (good to about 8K RPM), and will bolt right up. Since I have to wait for that to get here around Wednesday of this week, I decided to replace my used ARP head studs with new, standard ARP's. This would have been the 4th torque cycle for my current studs and I took them up to 95 ft-lbs last time so I think I was getting close to stretching them. Figure it's worth $80 for some peace of mind that the new ones will definitely not be stretched and I'm going to only take them up to 85 ft-lbs as I think my previous sealing issues had more to do with using an MLS gasket instead of a composite. I also ordered up some new timing cover hardware as my old, now destroyed cover was missing some bolts. So, I had hoped to make some progress this weekend and had Lake Michigan decided to hold off on dumping over a foot of snow on us, I could have gone up and got the head today but it's pretty nasty on the roads around here so I'm just going to have it shipped.
I do have a question for anyone that's done a t-belt on a DSM though. I'm planning on using the timing tensioner tool (long rod that goes through the motor mount) to tension the auto-adjuster so I can pull the grenade pin out. With that said, how do I set/torque the bolt that secures the tensioner arm to the block? It's the part of the arm that goes around the mounting point and then a bolt and very large washer holds the arm in place. Is that bolt not supposed to tighten down though? It seems like it gets tight, but still spins? I'm guessing maybe it has to stay a tad loose to allow the arm to rotate to keep tension on the belt? Just want to make sure it's suppose to be that way before I go at this thing in earnest. I just noticed it the other day as I was bolting the auto-tensioner and tensioner arm to the block.
I'll post back when I actually get to do more work to the car
Todd
_________________________
2011 Edge (Wife's appliance) EVO IX MR, minor mods
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#4389105 - 01/02/10 06:42 PM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: danl]
|
CommonGutterTrash
This user is more useless than a half-baked compost pile.
Post Master Sr
Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 6437
Loc: Boston MA
|
I was always under the impression that the tensioner tool was just for un-doing the timing on a motor.
if the tensioner is "new", and compressed, you shouldn't need anything but the 2-pin tool, that goes into the pulley.
I forget the torque #, but like Dan said... just torque it down(the tensioner)
same with the arm. the only thing you have to wait to torque, is the pulley.
that number, I forget, too. I've done it enough that I can just give it a twist, and be "on". (plus, I have my own "secret" method of setting timing that you all would cringe from hearing)
I,too, have no idea what dan't talking about hitting the arm.
I think he means don't rest the tensioner *arm* on the hydrolic pin.
I'm sure you've seen it, but here's Vfaq
http://vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-1G.html
_________________________
Craig R. 2000 9-5 Gary Fisher Wagon 1995 850 T-5R 1996 Galant AIM = gclipse96
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#4390134 - 01/03/10 09:18 AM
Re: Starting a new post, carnage pics...
[Re: CommonGutterTrash]
|
ElectronVTEC2
Post Master Sr
Registered: 07/10/08
Posts: 5915
|
I was checking the VFAQ out yesterday and I like this method of setting tension, seems pretty darn easy:
Here is how I set the tension whether I am using a new tensioner or not:
* I do not use an Allen wrench on the tensioner as noted previously, I just let the tensioner expand all the way
* Once the belt is installed, I place a .150" drillbit (or the nearest larger size I have) on the top of the tensioner body, and screw in the tensioner tool until it captures the drillbit between the tensioner body and tensioner pulley bracket. When the bracket is close to the drillbit, I start spinning the drillbit, and stop screwing in the tool as soon as the bracket stops it from spinning. In other words, I stop when the pulley bracket is just snug against the bit.
* I place a flatblade screwdriver between the engine and tensioner pulley, and lightly pry up on the pulley
* I torque the pulley down
* I back off the tensioner tool several turns, and immediately check the tensioner gap - if it has gotten too small or too large right away, I redo the steps above, changing the pressure used on the screwdriver. If the gap looks OK, I spin the engine 6 turns and wait 15 minutes and check the gap again.
* There are other ways to do this, but this works best for me
Todd
_________________________
2011 Edge (Wife's appliance) EVO IX MR, minor mods
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
Moderator: auxilary, Professor Paki
|
|
